Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

[gblews]

Until now, I couldn't definitively pin down Lorca. I was mostly sure he was from the mirror universe. There was a moment in this episode that completely verified that all of the "where the hell are we?" stuff is an act. Burnham(was it Burnham? Maybe Saru?) suggests looking back through the navigational records to see what went wrong. He immediately cuts her off with his own theory and how to proceed, covering up his deed. This can only delay the inevitable discovery of his "override."

You know, I am the self-proclaimed World's Foremost Lorca Apologist...but yes...I noticed this as well.

He did cut them off, but I thought he gave them authorization to review the jump logs just not right then? He can only buy but so much time. I still hold out hope this is all for the greater good.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the "Lorca is from the MU" theory, although I could see this being the case, but he seems to know more than he is letting on.

In the scene where he is discussing destiny with Burnham and he makes the comment "I'd hoped to find a better me here" (or something like that), the camera cuts to a shot of Burnham reacting with a look of puzzlement. It was like she was thinking, "that was a weird thing to say", which is probably exactly what most of us were thinking. That shot of her with that look has some meaning. Just not sure what that meaning is yet.

There's a reason why I didn't like the previous MU episodes. One of them is that in a supposed Terran Empire, there were aliens on board being treated equally. That didn't make any sense at all. I feel that DSC is the first one to get that right. There may be aliens in the Terran Empire, but they're subservient species, not bridge officers.

Aliens weren't treated as equals in the Ent MU. Although T'Pol was a bridge officer, at one point she feels the need to inform (can't recall who it was) that she was not a slave, which implies that she could have been. The conversation she has with Soval in the mess hall where he mentions that Vulcans are not permitted to give each other the Vulcan salute is further indication that aliens aren't seen as equal to Terrans in the Ent MU.

 

[Fateor]

Also if the Discovery now knows about what happens with the Defiant why wouldn't they warn Starfleet about it when they get back?

 

[Feron]

All the comments about Mary Wiseman and Tilly’s appearance are absolutely disgusting. I dare everyone who posted them to post pictures of themselves. I doubt they will, most are probably in worst shape themselves while having an incredibly sexist idea of how women should look. This is also why they’ll never find a partner, insane standards.

I most likely am completely at the other end of the political spectrum from you on most issues, but with this I agree with you 100%.

The insulting comments made about a lovely young woman and the character she portrays were abhorrent. One thing that I have enjoyed about Discovery is that they have gotten cast members that are not super-models putting out very unrealistic role models for how people appear.

Ms. Wiseman is a perfectly wonderful looking lady, and more importantly clearly a bright and gifted actress.

I love what her character adds to the show. As others have said, she is an "everyman" sort of character in some ways, representing what many people experience. She has high ideals and sets lofty goals for herself, but at the same time like real people do sometimes struggles with socially awkward moments. When she transcends her fears and limitations she inspires the rest of us to seek to do the same.

 

[Jaimito]

And Tara's death on Buffy was part of the most natural, human couple on the show, hurt the audience, and it didn't matter what her sexual identity was. Nobody kills off the gay character because they're gay, but somehow, they always seem to die.

Actually, I read the full article published on their thoughts before 'judging'. I find their comments rather naive and the fact they didn't mean it to be a trope example is not really an excuse. Actually, the fact they knew about the tendency for gay characters to die, were aware of the impact that had on the community, and yet did it anyway, kind of makes it worse.

maybe i don't watch enough TV and movies. I never get a sense there is a tendency for gay characters to die. In real life, many do commit suicide or get killed, but certainly not at a level far different from the general public. I think you are over reacting. The Dr's murder does serve a purpose in the story, both his relationship as well as Ash's character. Besides, he will be back anyway.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Also if the Discovery now knows about what happens with the Defiant why wouldn't they warn Starfleet about it when they get back?

They're not coming back...

 

[Albinator]

Am I the only one who wasn't impressed with Frakes' direction? I found some his choice of shots and camerawork, particularly the cuts, to be amateurish for this style of show. There was one scene in particular, when they're discussing their position early on (in Lorca's ready room) where the camera is spinning around the room...

...it could have been cool if the camera spun to each character timed with their dialog, but instead he STILL chose to cut to different angles mid-swing. Also way too much bland exposition that could have been delivered differently. Very clunky first half overall, but once it kicked into gear, it was well done.

I don't think his direction is bad, I just don't think it is especially good. I'd rather see him guest star as Ambassador Marcus Riker than direct, to be honest. I don't think he's best suited for this style of show. A more standard procedural seems to be where he's best.

Other than that though, great episode. A highlight of the season for sure. I get the feeling we'll be in the mirror universe for the rest of the season.

 

[ClintDagger]

I'm convinced Lorca is from the MU. I'm wondering if, as the Discovery passing across was a straight swap, 'our' Lorca also switched places with his counterpart - or perhaps the entire ISS Buran switched with the USS Buran, and then was promptly destroyed by Lorca to cover his tracks.

Am I mistaken, or did Lorca not ask about the fate of the MU Buran crew (which he called “my crew” or something like that). Certainly seemed concerned for that particular crew.

Also, the Lorca that tried to assassinate the Emperor.... Perhaps that was not done as a power grab but rather as part of a rebellion led by our universe’s Lorca.

 

[Albinator]

Also, two possibilites: the Terran Empire modified and experimented on the Defiant after Empress Sato delivered her back to Earth. The Imperial database doesn't have fully accurate renderings of some ships, much as how the bridge turbolift alcove and console displays on TOS often showed an Enterprise that was slightly stylized and based on early Matt Jefferies drawings of the ship with slightly different proportions. Either would work just fine.

Considering in Discovery's time the Constitution class is outdated, it would make sense to have upgraded her. Overall, the tech in the Mirror Universe SHOULD be more advanced than the Prime Universe thanks to the Defiant (kind of like the Kelvin and Nero's ship altering technological progress in the JJ-verse).

 

[Awesome Possum]

Also if the Discovery now knows about what happens with the Defiant why wouldn't they warn Starfleet about it when they get back?

Because then it won’t happen and they would not have been able to get back. Do you want a paradox? Because that’s how you get a paradox.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Also if the Discovery now knows about what happens with the Defiant why wouldn't they warn Starfleet about it when they get back?

Maybe you should wait to see how things play out before engaging in why wouldn't theys? Unless they gain access to the Defiant's complete logs all they know is the Defiant wound up in an alternate Universe. No where. No when. No how. What's Starfleet going to do with such limited information? Pull the Defiant from active duty forever?

 

[Feron]

Also if the Discovery now knows about what happens with the Defiant why wouldn't they warn Starfleet about it when they get back?

If they use anything concerning the Defiant to return themselves, then preventing the Defiant from ever going to the Mirror Universe would create a time paradox that would prevent them from ever warning about the Defiant.

 

[Noname Given]

Also if the Discovery now knows about what happens with the Defiant why wouldn't they warn Starfleet about it when they get back?

Because if they do - and things change - they wouldn't get back...aka BAD paradox.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Maybe you should wait to see how things play out before engaging in why wouldn't theys? Unless they gain access to the Defiant's complete logs all they know is the Defiant wound up in an alternate Universe. No where. No when. No how. What's Starfleet going to do with such limited information? Pull the Defiant from active duty forever?

...

I think asking these sort of questions is 90% of the fun in speculative fiction. The answers are, presently, ungiven, but innumerable. Guessing, hypothesizing, and pondering are absolutely necessary, especially for a prequel series, for me to maximize enjoyment of the show.

 

[Fateor]

Because then it won’t happen and they would not have been able to get back. Do you want a paradox? Because that’s how you get a paradox.

If they use anything concerning the Defiant to return themselves, then preventing the Defiant from ever going to the Mirror Universe would create a time paradox that would prevent them from ever warning about the Defiant.

The Mirror Universe is as it's name described a different universe, and Timelines aren't congruent between universes.

What this means is that timeline wise stopping the Defiant from crossing over to the Mirror Universe in the Main Universe, wouldn't actually stop the Defiant from appearing in the Mirror Universe.

 

[Nerys Myk]

...

I think asking these sort of questions is 90% of the fun in speculative fiction. The answers are, presently, ungiven, but innumerable. Guessing, hypothesizing, and pondering are absolutely necessary, especially for a prequel series, for me to maximize enjoyment of the show.

I don't think that's what at play here.

 

[bigglesworth]

All the comments about Mary Wiseman and Tilly’s appearance are absolutely disgusting. I dare everyone who posted them to post pictures of themselves. I doubt they will, most are probably in worst shape themselves while having an incredibly sexist idea of how women should look. This is also why they’ll never find a partner, insane standards.

Tilly/Wiseman is an attractive woman in her regular uniform and hair up, but MU Tilly... WOW!!! She is one gorgeous lady.

 

[Awesome Possum]

The Mirror Universe is as it's name described a different universe, and Timelines aren't congruent between universes.

What this means is that timeline wise stopping the Defiant from crossing over to the Mirror Universe in the Main Universe, wouldn't actually stop the Defiant from appearing in the Mirror Universe.

If the Defiant never goes back, how could the Discovery crew find out about it and use that information to get back and warn about the Defiant?

 

[Bgt]

Sure, but a certain percentage of those fans who dislike the show went in to it wanting to dislike it.

And what about those who love the show and went in to it wanting to love it? ?
And what about the ones who couldnt wait for the new ST only to get very disappointed by it?

In other news, some people here should learn how to separate the image of the actor from the role.
Tilly actress plays a specific character. In real life could be the most interesting or/and sexy person you can meet.

What super frustrates me is that that they give "comic relief" roles to ppl who don't follow the "beauty" standards of Hollywood. Like Neelix or Tilly. The showrunners are the ones who encourage the sexist stereotypes. And of course they are also doing this to please the nerd side of the Trekkies. The slightly overweight/not that beautiful/a bit socially awkward/ nerd that can have a part in the story and help in every situation.
Which is why I detest the Tilly character.

 

[Fateor]

If the Defiant never goes back, how could the Discovery crew find out about it and use that information to get back and warn about the Defiant?

Think of the universe's timeline like a reel of film, you have one reel for the timeline of the Main Universe, and a completely separate reel for the timeline of the Mirror Universe.

Now the Main Universe's film reel has the Defiant disappear through an interphasic rift.

While the Mirror Universe's film feel has the Defiant appear through an interphasic rift.

Now you edit the Main Universe's film reel to remove the part where the Defiant disappeared through the interphasic rift. While this effects future events that occur in the Main Universe's film real it does not effect the Mirror Universe's film real, because they are separate film reels.

So the Defiant still appears in the Mirror Universe because that's what time in the Mirror Universe says happened, even if there is no longer any precipitating event in the Main Universe.

 

[MacLeod]

And what about those who love the show and went in to it wanting to love it? ?
And what about the ones who couldnt wait for the new ST only to get very disappointed by it?

Preconceptions about a show be they positive or negative can have an influence on ones reaction to the show. It's part of the reason I tend to avoid reviews of shows/films as it might cloud my enjoyment. If something is highly praised I might be dissapointed in it due to rasied expectations. How many people couldn't waiut for a new SW film only to be disspointed by it i.e TPM? Sometimes we as fans raise expectations too high so we end up disappointed.

I don't go into watching a film/TV series wanting to hate it, I've got better things to be doing than watching something I think I'll hate.