So name a Star Trek moment that you just didn't "get".

[MarsWeeps]

...

You'd make a good Klingon!

I could do without the personal attack, thank you.

Personal attack? Really? You need to lighten up, it was a joke, do you not see the Klingon smiley?

TNG made it a point to show that humanity had evolved enough to attempt communication with the entity before resorting to destroying it. In fact, it looked like they were beginning to communicate with it when Doctor Marr caused its destruction. Wouldn't it have been better to try and understand the entity and its needs instead of destroying it?

That pablum has been served on toasts many times but it doesn't apply to situations like this.

The writers seemed to think so. Sure, you could destroy the single entity but what if there were millions of them out there? Wouldn't it be better if we were able to communicate with it, and find a way to co-exist peacefully? That's part of the whole premise of Star Trek, "to seek out new life and new civilizations."

If some crazy man is at the top of a tower shooting people at random, you're allowed to take him before he does more damage. That's called defense of others.

Poor analogy. A crazy man isn't the same as a totally new life form in which we know little about.

 

[T'Girl]

... would Savvik's little finger game really fix him?

Personally I would be "fixed" just fine by Savvik's little finger game thing, I'd imagine quite a few people would be.

The reason why only a single transporter was used to beam people to and from planets was because there was often no transporter on the planet

In Tribbles we only saw people beam to the manager office using his double pad transporter, Kirk and Spock didn't simple materialize in a open area of the office.

Cloud Minders as well had (what seemed to be) a free standing transporter platform, this is where people arrived and presumably departed from.

Why? It might have to do with ease of transport, a possible power saving, and going to a "beacon" arrival location. The sender doesn't have to look for a "open spot."

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

...

You'd make a good Klingon!

I could do without the personal attack, thank you.

Personal attack? Really? You need to lighten up, it was a joke, do you not see the Klingon smiley?

That pablum has been served on toasts many times but it doesn't apply to situations like this.

The writers seemed to think so. Sure, you could destroy the single entity but what if there were millions of them out there? Wouldn't it be better if we were able to communicate with it, and find a way to co-exist peacefully? That's part of the whole premise of Star Trek, "to seek out new life and new civilizations."

"New life and new civilizations" that haven't killed thousands of your people and aren't demonstrably likely to kill more if they escape your control.

If some crazy man is at the top of a tower shooting people at random, you're allowed to take him before he does more damage. That's called defense of others.

Poor analogy. A crazy man isn't the same as a totally new life form in which we know little about.

True a totally new MURDERING life form isn't the same as a crazy man, it's worse, since you can assess the danger represented by a crazy man, the new life form you can only know what it's done so far, not what it's capable of doing if left to its own devices.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

But the whole accident throws that theory out the window. The fact that the Enterprise's transporter had a problem shouldn't have prevented Starfleet's transporters from successfully completing the transport or retrieving the personnel. Isn't that the whole point of using 2 transporters?

Except that the Enterprise transporter had apparently already scrambled their patterns before Starfleet had an opportunity to either complete the transporter or retrieve the officers ("Unable to receive their patterns, Enterprise."). Based on the other dialogue in that scene, it sounds like there may have been a problem with the Enterprise transporter properly receiving signals from Starfleet's transporters on Earth.

The bigger issue with that entire mess is how and why Sonak and Ciana were allowed to transport up in the first place--and why nobody on board thought to say, "Please stand by. Our transporter system is not fully operational. We'll send a shuttle to your location as soon as possible." I'm left scratching my head as to what Rand may have told Starfleet in the moments leading up to the accident; perhaps the entire ordeal was her fault after all.

--Sran

 

[JeffinOakland]

Thank gawd for "suspension of disbelief" without which, none of the episodes or movies would make any sense when held up to the light of day. Considering how many episodes/movies there are, it is a veritable miracle how well it all holds together.

 

[urbandefault]

Maybe using two transporters when in port is part of security protocol. No unauthorized personnel transport out, and personnel transporting aboard have been cleared.

Then there's the thing with the possibility of materializing inside a bulkhead, a deck, that kind of stuff. Safety first.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

But the whole accident throws that theory out the window. The fact that the Enterprise's transporter had a problem shouldn't have prevented Starfleet's transporters from successfully completing the transport or retrieving the personnel. Isn't that the whole point of using 2 transporters?

Except that the Enterprise transporter had apparently already scrambled their patterns before Starfleet had an opportunity to either complete the transporter or retrieve the officers ("Unable to receive their patterns, Enterprise."). Based on the other dialogue in that scene, it sounds like there may have been a problem with the Enterprise transporter properly receiving signals from Starfleet's transporters on Earth.

The bigger issue with that entire mess is how and why Sonak and Ciana were allowed to transport up in the first place--and why nobody on board thought to say, "Please stand by. Our transporter system is not fully operational. We'll send a shuttle to your location as soon as possible." I'm left scratching my head as to what Rand may have told Starfleet in the moments leading up to the accident; perhaps the entire ordeal was her fault after all.

--Sran

It's amazing that people continued to use the transporter, not much later after this, after witnessing the awfulness of that incident.

 

[MarsWeeps]

True a totally new MURDERING life form isn't the same as a crazy man, it's worse, since you can assess the danger represented by a crazy man, the new life form you can only know what it's done so far, not what it's capable of doing if left to its own devices.

So I guess you were pissed off that they didn't kill the Horta? After all, it started murdering the miners in one of the most painful ways possible, dissolving them with acid. They should have just killed it without trying to find out why it was killing!!!! A MURDERING MONSTER....KILL IT!!! KILL IT!!! KILL IT!!!

How dare Kirk and Spock attempt communication with it!!! How dare they try to find out why it was killing! IT WAS A MURDERING MONSTER!!! THAT ALONE IS ENOUGH REASON TO KILL IT!!!

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

It's amazing that people continued to use the transporter, not much later after this, after witnessing the awfulness of that incident.

Reading this makes me think of Q's line about space not being for the timid. People continued using the transporter because their duty demanded it. Although I'm sure many of the last-minute replacements were nervous about beaming up, it's not as though Starfleet gave them any choice in the matter. McCoy materialized holding his midsection, suggesting that someone may have shoved him onto the transporter pad.

--Sran

 

[MarsWeeps]

Then there's the thing with the possibility of materializing inside a bulkhead, a deck, that kind of stuff. Safety first.

Safety first didn't seem to work in this instance, did it?

It's amazing that people continued to use the transporter, not much later after this, after witnessing the awfulness of that incident.

Probably the same reason people still get into cars and planes even after witnessing the awfulness of fatal accidents.

 

[Nebusj]

True a totally new MURDERING life form isn't the same as a crazy man, it's worse, since you can assess the danger represented by a crazy man, the new life form you can only know what it's done so far, not what it's capable of doing if left to its own devices.

If only there were some way of communicating with it, perhaps, and ascertaining whether it had the capacity to reason and therefore might be dealt with, perhaps put to some harmless or even beneficial end.

(``Hey, Crystal? Yeah, the Borg are being kind of a pain today. If you can do it in one gulp, though, there's like 2^18 lifeforms you can slurp up in a shot, want to give it a go?'')

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

True a totally new MURDERING life form isn't the same as a crazy man, it's worse, since you can assess the danger represented by a crazy man, the new life form you can only know what it's done so far, not what it's capable of doing if left to its own devices.

So I guess you were pissed off that they didn't kill the Horta? After all, it started murdering the miners in one of the most painful ways possible, dissolving them with acid. They should have just killed it without trying to find out why it was killing!!!! A MURDERING MONSTER....KILL IT!!! KILL IT!!! KILL IT!!!

How dare Kirk and Spock attempt communication with it!!! How dare they try to find out why it was killing! IT WAS A MURDERING MONSTER!!! THAT ALONE IS ENOUGH REASON TO KILL IT!!!

Until it could be argued that the Horta was acting in self defense, that's what they were ALL prepared to do, including Spock who was the first to argue in favor of the Horta.

Unless you're ready to make the same argument that the crystalline blight was acting in self defense, my opinion stands.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Regarding the crystalline entity.

If a bear walks out into a residential area, and kills somebody, they will put down the bear. But, if a person walks into the bear's cave and threatens her cubs and gets killed, they won't. Because, defending her cubs is her natural behavior. It's similar to Picard's analogy, a shark eats millions of tiny fish, it's not evil. If the crystalline entity could have been convinced to make a distinction between sentient life and non-sentient life, and be shown a harmless alternative way to feed, there would be no reason to kill it.

And let's bear in mind, at the time Marr killed it, Picard had his finger on the button and could have pushed it whenever he wanted, and would have done so if it were necessary to prevent further killings.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

True a totally new MURDERING life form isn't the same as a crazy man, it's worse, since you can assess the danger represented by a crazy man, the new life form you can only know what it's done so far, not what it's capable of doing if left to its own devices.

If only there were some way of communicating with it, perhaps, and ascertaining whether it had the capacity to reason and therefore might be dealt with, perhaps put to some harmless or even beneficial end.

(``Hey, Crystal? Yeah, the Borg are being kind of a pain today. If you can do it in one gulp, though, there's like 2^18 lifeforms you can slurp up in a shot, want to give it a go?'')

The idea, that all you have to do is communicate with an enemy to turn it into a friend is absurd. Communicating with the Nazis didn't help at all, if anything it made things worse.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Until it could be argued that the Horta was acting in self defense, that's what they were ALL prepared to do, including Spock who was the first to argue in favor of the Horta.

Unless you're ready to make the same argument that the crystalline blight was acting in self defense, my opinion stands.

That's my whole point! They didn't know the Horta had a good reason for attacking the miners UNTIL THEY COMMUNICATED WITH IT!

That's exactly what Picard was trying to do with the crystalline entity, they were attempting to communicate with it and early indications were that they were succeeding but then the bitter old lady doctor destroyed the entity out of revenge, just like what the miners tried doing to the Horta!

 

[MarsWeeps]

The idea, that all you have to do is communicate with an enemy to turn it into a friend is absurd. Communicating with the Nazis didn't help at all, if anything it made things worse.

Yeah, let's use that one example and apply it to every scenario from now until the end of time! Never, ever try communication first because, after all, it didn't work with the Nazi's!

I'm curious why you like Star Trek (assuming you do) because you seem to be very pessimistic about our future and about the positive aspects of human nature. Has Star Trek taught you nothing?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Until it could be argued that the Horta was acting in self defense, that's what they were ALL prepared to do, including Spock who was the first to argue in favor of the Horta.

Unless you're ready to make the same argument that the crystalline blight was acting in self defense, my opinion stands.

That's my whole point! They didn't know the Horta had a good reason for attacking the miners UNTIL THEY COMMUNICATED WITH IT!

That's exactly what Picard was trying to do with the crystalline entity, they were attempting to communicate with it and early indications were that they were succeeding but then the bitter old lady doctor destroyed the entity out of revenge, just like what the miners tried doing to the Horta!

You see that's that kind of attitude that I find appalling. When you attack that sweet old lady grieving for her son when all she did was prevent that giant destroying vermin from causing further damage. For the sake of your argumentation you are even willing to ignore her suffering and dehumanize her while anthropomorphizing that thing that kills and kills again. I am sure that old lady wouldn't harm a fly and yet you stigmatize her beyond what she's even done.

 

[urbandefault]

Then there's the thing with the possibility of materializing inside a bulkhead, a deck, that kind of stuff. Safety first.

Safety first didn't seem to work in this instance, did it?

It's amazing that people continued to use the transporter, not much later after this, after witnessing the awfulness of that incident.

Probably the same reason people still get into cars and planes even after witnessing the awfulness of fatal accidents.

Ok, wait. Which side are you arguing? I can't keep up.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Then there's the thing with the possibility of materializing inside a bulkhead, a deck, that kind of stuff. Safety first.

Safety first didn't seem to work in this instance, did it?

It's amazing that people continued to use the transporter, not much later after this, after witnessing the awfulness of that incident.

Probably the same reason people still get into cars and planes even after witnessing the awfulness of fatal accidents.

Ok, wait. Which side are you arguing? I can't keep up.

Good call!

 

[The Wormhole]

Honestly, the Borg assimilating Earth in the past makes no sense at all. The Borg are interested in technology, not people. What's so technologically impressive about humanity the day they launch their first warp flight?

^That never made sense to me, either. And as humanity was not interested in significantly expanding the Federation's borders, it's not as though any territory occupied by the Borg would have been threatened by the Federation.

--Sran

I see it as the message that the Borg from Regeneration sent had information that basically said, "Yeah, this Federation group kicked our butts in The Best of Both worlds, and they kicked our butts again at the beginning of First Contact."

So the Queen gets curious, and sends a few cubes. One is eventually followed by the Hansens and the Queen says, "These guys are nothing, so I'm bringing this first cube home." But she decides to see what the other cube finds out, which does the stuff from The Neutral Zone. The Queen figures that the first Cube was right, these Feds are nothing special and there's no point in going all the way across the galaxy to assimilate them. So the second Cube heads home as well. But then Q flings the Enterprise into its path, the Borg are like, "How did they get out here? Let's assimilate and find out." Then Q sends the Enterprise back, the Borg want to know how the Enterprise escaped, so the Queen sends this Cube back, resulting in the Best of Both Worlds. And we know how it goes from there.

The point me and Sran were making is why do the Borg want to assimilate a world where the most advanced form of technology is nuclear missile with a pair of warp nacelles attached on?