Why is toxic fandom destroying everything?

[David cgc]

Not to beat a dead horse, but rolling back to the "They fly now!" "They fly now?!" "They fly now," thing, it's not so much that it's quippy and irreverent, it's that it's quippy and irreverent in a very specific, stock, hacky way that had been recognized as overdone for years by that point.

The writer's room for the show Workaholics had a list that went around on-line of banned lines and phrases that were along these lines, stock phrases and jokes that were once clever and funny but had been diluted into filler through years of overuse. Screenwriter John August described them (three years before TRoS came out) as "evoking the rhythm of comedy without the content of comedy." That's what "They fly now (3x)" is.

And "evoking the rhythm of [x] without the content of [x]" is probably the best description I could give of that entire movie.

 

[fireproof78]

Not to beat a dead horse, but rolling back to the "They fly now!" "They fly now?!" "They fly now," thing, it's not so much that it's quippy and irreverent, it's that it's quippy and irreverent in a very specific, stock, hacky way that had been recognized as overdone for years by that point.

I must have missed the memo that it was overdone and that I should be offended by it.

 

[Anwar]

He died though, so there was no place for material plane punishment. His ascending to become a force ghost was more of a "religious" metaphor in that there is room for redemption and forgiveness for everyone. He even died at the hands of a character dressed like a priest absolving him of his sins.

Tell that to the Force Ghosts of all the Jedi he killed who are likely wondering why HE gets to be there with them.

 

[fireproof78]

Yoda: "Awkward this is."*




*all due credit to HISHE.

 

[Gaith]

You're forgetting Vader himself, because he did ONE good deed (and that was selfish itself anyways), he was forgiven and allowed to ascend to Jedi Heaven and Obi-Wan and Yoda were happy to see him at the end.

I'm not forgetting at all; I've never liked him joining the Force ghosts. But at least he did die for his sins.

 

[theenglish]

Tell that to the Force Ghosts of all the Jedi he killed who are likely wondering why HE gets to be there with them.

In the one scene we see, the force ghosts believe that Anakin has been saved. The concept is based on the very Catholic concept of forgiveness. If one feels truly sorry for their sins, no matter what that sin is, and confesses their sins then they get to go to heaven. On the other hand, if someone exacts vengeance on that person who has repented--say a grieved parent kills the murderer of their child--and never repents then they go to purgatory or hell. It is not up to mortals to choose who gets redeemed.

I'm grew up a Catholic so I'm not preaching a personal belief just what I learned. I will say that this is a concept that has formed my philosophy about being a good human. The importance of forgiveness toward someone who repents and tries to make amends for the crimes they have committed against you. I will admit it is a goal I am still working toward.

 

[Set Harth]

Tell that to the Force Ghosts of all the Jedi he killed who are likely wondering why HE gets to be there with them.

Why would they even be Force ghosts?

 

[Anwar]

Why would they even be Force ghosts?

I imagine the innocent kids he murdered would be there.

 

[Set Harth]

I imagine the innocent kids he murdered would be there.

Why?

 

[Anwar]

Why?

Why NOT is the real question. Folks are bending backwards to try and ignore all the vile stuff Vader really did throughout the Saga.

 

[Set Harth]

Why NOT is the real question.

Because the franchise didn't end in 1983.

 

[Anwar]

Because the franchise didn't end in 1983.

...That's what I'm saying. We learned afterwards that Vader was an unrepentant child killer, I'm sorry but even hardcore Catholics would be a little fidgety at the idea that his one heroic act (which was STILL a selfish one) would undo all that.

 

[Gaith]

...That's what I'm saying. We learned afterwards that Vader was an unrepentant child killer, I'm sorry but even hardcore Catholics would be a little fidgety at the idea that his one heroic act (which was STILL a selfish one) would undo all that.

I think it's pretty clear that Anakin silently repented for all his sins, in the Catholic sense, before dying, in that he acknowledged to Luke before they went to see the Emperor that he'd gone down the wrong path.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I must have missed the memo that it was overdone and that I should be offended by it.

Same. SW has had a history of clunky and rote dialogue and this line is fairly tame by those standards. It doesn't even stand out to me. In fact, by this point, if the movie hadn't contained clunky dialogue, it wouldn't have felt quite like SW to me. So go figure it would be the one line in the movie people get most offended by. I felt more upset by what they had done to Chewie.

 

[Set Harth]

...That's what I'm saying. We learned afterwards that Vader was an unrepentant child killer, I'm sorry but even hardcore Catholics would be a little fidgety at the idea that his one heroic act (which was STILL a selfish one) would undo all that.

Who ever said that it would undo all that?

 

[theenglish]

Who ever said that it would undo all that?

Take a look at my post above. It is not the act of saving Luke that saves Vader. It is repentance and turning his back on the dark side.

 

[Set Harth]

People seem to think that Force ghosting is Jedi Heaven, but... I have news.

They made more movies after 1983!

In which we learned that it's a Force skill passed down at a certain point in the timeline by specific people, not something automatic to Jedihood.

Honey Badger don't care. Abrams too, probably. But the prequels are canon all the same.

 

[fireproof78]

People seem to think that Force ghosting is Jedi Heaven, but... I have news.

They made more movies after 1983!

In which we learned that it's a Force skill passed down at a certain point in the timeline by specific people, not something automatic to Jedihood.

Honey Badger don't care. Abrams too, probably. But the prequels are canon all the same.

Not sure that really addresses the question and makes more questions. How did Anakin learn it? Why does he get to pass in to the Force but others don't? Especially considering the evil her perpetuated.

He unlock.a skill tree right as he lay dying?

 

[ananta]

People seem to think that Force ghosting is Jedi Heaven, but... I have news.

They made more movies after 1983!

Which they reeaaaally shouldn’t have done.

That original trilogy was perfection. I really wish it had been left as it was. They had nothing of great importance to add.

But I’m jumping off at a tangent.

Toxic fandom is a problem, but I think it’s an inevitable consequence of social media in general. In some, if not many case, the new content they’re churning out may just not be very great. How do you distinguish genuine criticism from toxicity?

 

[Gaith]

Not sure that really addresses the question and makes more questions. How did Anakin learn it?

Maybe Obi-Wan and Yoda, having become Force ghosts themselves, after learning the ability when they were alive, were able to guide his spirit into becoming one?