I think it's also because if all we did was say "Star Trek is awesome" all the time, it wouldn't be very interesting around here. Everyone's going have elements they like, and elements they don't like. That's what makes it interesting.
Why do people criticise ST so much ?
- Thread starter Willieck
- Start date
Uh, no. It's more like saying he doesn't like the first floor at all and is glad he only has to pass through it for an instant to get to the elevator.
I agree with the "you love it so much you criticize it in order to make it better" thing, but I think the problem is you've got so many different series that have that have so many different philosophies about how to view life. The first shots were fired after Rick Berman took over and Roddenberry's utopian view of the world died with him. The schism in trek fandom has been there ever since.
I guess that virtually everybody registered on these forums is a ST fan. This being the case why do we spend so much time criticising it. I know that ST is not perfect but to read a lot of the posts on here you might think that you were reading a "I Hate Star Trek" forum.
Any opinions?
For the record I like all the series and all the films, so there.
I gotta agree with what you said. I've loved Trek since I was about six years old and started watching TOS re-runs in the late 1970s. I like all the series and all the movies, too. And most of the over 400 Trek novels that I own. There are some fans out there who would accuse me ( and probably the OP, too), of gobbling up whatever Trek was doled out, regardless of its quality -- the implication being, that that somehow makes me less of a fan, or something. The fact is, I love Star Trek for the imperfect, flawed, universe that it is. Sure, there are some parts of it I enjoy more than others, but at the end of the day, I really do enjoy it all.
Sometimes, I read Trek forums and wonder why people who claim to like Trek seem to spend so much of their time nitpicking and criticizing it. For me, doing that would take away from a lot of the enjoyment I get from Star Trek. But, that's just me -- everyone is different, and for some people, picking something apart to within an inch of its life helps them enjoy it more, somehow. That's not something I completely understand, but, hey, to each his own.
But the whole negativity thing is the biggest reason I don't really hang out on Trek boards that much. Every once in a while, I get curious to come out and lurk around a bit. But the griping just really isn't my thing. I think absolutely everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however. I just prefer to blissfully exist in my own little "yes, it doesn't all add up perfectly, but dammit, I like it anyway" world.
)
Funniest thing I've heard today.Dead on.
In like manner no one is more critical of a professional sports team than a die hard fan of said team.
True.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I have found that most of the more vocal viewership I have encountered on this BBS patently go out of their way it seems, to simply NOT enjoy the show. I attribute this to a few things, mainly observations I've made of personality types that seem to flock toward Trek in general, the more extreme of whom possess the characteristics which tend to include the following in your Joe Average TrekBBS viewer:
1) Obsessive-compulsive about every detail needing to line up properly
2) The vehement, unrelenting belief that their favorite show is the best
3) Tends to believe they are in a subtle, but still life-or-death struggle to be proven right, likely due to massive insecurity issues in real life
4) Simply uninformed or having a fundamental lack of understanding as to how television
shows are produced/how Hollywood operates
5) So steeped in their own idea of what "Star Trek" is or should be that they are unwilling and uncompromisingly closed-minded about why others could value anything outside said idea.
6) Because of aforementioned insecurity issues, feels the need to vocalize every complaint, every issue and assert said points until vindicated.
7) Most disturbingly, there is a cloying, unsubtle control-freak epidemic, in that what must be for one, must be for all. Everything is black and white with little room for gray. Example: You either hate Enteprise or love it. And if you love it, all that means is you have lousy taste in Star Trek and are a poor judge of quality.
So, in short -- Trekkies are crazy-ass motherfuckers who need to relax and stop hatin'
1) Obsessive-compulsive about every detail needing to line up properly
2) The vehement, unrelenting belief that their favorite show is the best
3) Tends to believe they are in a subtle, but still life-or-death struggle to be proven right, likely due to massive insecurity issues in real life
4) Simply uninformed or having a fundamental lack of understanding as to how television
shows are produced/how Hollywood operates
5) So steeped in their own idea of what "Star Trek" is or should be that they are unwilling and uncompromisingly closed-minded about why others could value anything outside said idea.
6) Because of aforementioned insecurity issues, feels the need to vocalize every complaint, every issue and assert said points until vindicated.
7) Most disturbingly, there is a cloying, unsubtle control-freak epidemic, in that what must be for one, must be for all. Everything is black and white with little room for gray. Example: You either hate Enteprise or love it. And if you love it, all that means is you have lousy taste in Star Trek and are a poor judge of quality.
So, in short -- Trekkies are crazy-ass motherfuckers who need to relax and stop hatin'
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I tend to disagree with the above assumptions that most of the people here go out of their way to dislike Star Trek. Just because people get into debates does not mean they actively dislike something and want to keep hammering that point home. Sure, there are those extremely vocal few that are like that and perhaps because of the number of posts, it seems to represent the majority however, it seems to me that most people are pretty respectful on differing opinons and viewpoints. All of this stuff is open for debate which is what makes it fun.
I honestly lurked here for about a month before joining just to gauge the level of "insanity" present (mainly because I'm a new fan and am definetly not as well versed in most of this as others). Overall, I do find that most people here are intelligent, friendly folks that debate and disagree on things. Sometimes people get a little too passionate about something but we all do about something.
I honestly lurked here for about a month before joining just to gauge the level of "insanity" present (mainly because I'm a new fan and am definetly not as well versed in most of this as others). Overall, I do find that most people here are intelligent, friendly folks that debate and disagree on things. Sometimes people get a little too passionate about something but we all do about something.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
No, I totally agree with you. I didn't mean to suggest that the majority of viewers are like that, simply that my perception of the most vocal viewers who post here seem to suffer from these tendencies. In other words, the loudmouths from the niche of the niche of the niche. 
I like some Trek more than others, but I respect those views of the fans the few shows/movies/episodes I don't care for. I never criticize the shows/movies I don't like; I just tend to avoid those forums. I like to talk about the shows I *do* like, though sometimes questioning things about them. I don't bash them or even parts of them.
And like you said: I'm a certified OCD sufferer, socially inept, a geek, and have many other mental health issues. But even so, I don't like to bash *any* Trek. I can appreciate what all the shows/movies, even those I don't care for, brought to the franchise etc. I'm thankful for Trek.
The main disappoinment was the failure of Enterprise and how it affected the future of Trek TV, regardless of your views on it (ie, whether you liked it or not — I'm not revealing here my feelings for it or any other incarnation.)
And if we're not to critique our beloved Trek at the TrekBBS, what *can* we critique here? I don't want to get involved commenting too much on other shows or competing franchises. Isn't that against the rules? And we can't just say nothing but praise for Trek. I assume most of us here take a positive view of Trek as a given. I can't speak for all, though.
And like you said: I'm a certified OCD sufferer, socially inept, a geek, and have many other mental health issues. But even so, I don't like to bash *any* Trek. I can appreciate what all the shows/movies, even those I don't care for, brought to the franchise etc. I'm thankful for Trek.
The main disappoinment was the failure of Enterprise and how it affected the future of Trek TV, regardless of your views on it (ie, whether you liked it or not — I'm not revealing here my feelings for it or any other incarnation.)
And if we're not to critique our beloved Trek at the TrekBBS, what *can* we critique here? I don't want to get involved commenting too much on other shows or competing franchises. Isn't that against the rules? And we can't just say nothing but praise for Trek. I assume most of us here take a positive view of Trek as a given. I can't speak for all, though.
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I enjoy all Star Trek (I have all six series and all eleven movies on DVD). There are some parts of the franchise I enjoy moreso than others, but I always look for the positives, not the negatives. I, for example, am a lot kinder to Voyager than many on this forum. Is it an especially deep show? Most of the time, no. But I found it fun and entertaining for the most part. In fact, the ship being out there on the edge of the final frontier having adventures gave me a TOS feeling.
I do feel ENT got off on the wrong foot, and only started to live up to its potential in its final two seasons. It's a shame we never got to see more as season four was the best one, IMO.
I also enjoy TOS season three a lot more than most folks here. A season with 'The Enterprise Incident', 'The Tholian Web', 'All Our Yesterdays', etc, cannot be considered bad. I even find 'Spocks Brain' and 'Platos Stepchildren' fun, in a silly way.
I'd say overall, Trek is 70% great stuff. That's not bad odds, really.
I do feel ENT got off on the wrong foot, and only started to live up to its potential in its final two seasons. It's a shame we never got to see more as season four was the best one, IMO.
I also enjoy TOS season three a lot more than most folks here. A season with 'The Enterprise Incident', 'The Tholian Web', 'All Our Yesterdays', etc, cannot be considered bad. I even find 'Spocks Brain' and 'Platos Stepchildren' fun, in a silly way.
I'd say overall, Trek is 70% great stuff. That's not bad odds, really.
To be fair I generally dislike TOS though I like the original movies. I started a project a while back to re-watch all TV episodes of TREK (near end of s1 ENT) and left out TOS on purpose though I might give it a shot someday.
As for why we criticise ST heavily, well I guess its because passionate fans do that alot we want the best from our beloved franchise. Far too often ST fans are too anal and closed minded though sometimes our hatred/nit picks are justified just look at Nemesis/TATV of good examples.
Personally I love most of TREK even with my dislike for the 60's show I respect the fact without it there would be no franchise and I do like the characters. I like all the movies bar Nemesis, hell TFF with a few plot tweaks would be very good as it already has quite a bit of charm/humor to it. TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT all have there negatives but are outwayed heavily by there positives even if that includes Endgame/TATV. The only thing I have a deep hatred for is how Paramount let B&B run the show for too long, you need to rock the boat now and again but waited too long.
TFF at least had the Kirk/Spock/McCoy relationship, a TOS-esque feel, and a few good scenes (McCoy pulling the plug on David, Spock's birth, Kirk's 'I need my pain' line). It wasn't all bad. I find each of the movies has something to enjoy. Nemesis had a great space battle, a cinematic scope, a good actor playing Shinzon, and a great score. Insurrection to me felt the most like TNG out of the TNG films.
Same with the 6 series. All have great eps (City On The Edge Of Forever, Yesteryear, Best of Both Worlds, The Visitor, Scorpion, Similitude, for example) and lesser ones (Spocks Brain, The Lorelai Signal, Shades Of Gray, Move Along Home, Threshold, A Night In Sickbay).
When you consider the vast history of the franchise, 6 shows and 11 films, it is a wonder there is so much great stuff there, really. Trek gets it right most of the time. I just take the good with the bad.
Same with the 6 series. All have great eps (City On The Edge Of Forever, Yesteryear, Best of Both Worlds, The Visitor, Scorpion, Similitude, for example) and lesser ones (Spocks Brain, The Lorelai Signal, Shades Of Gray, Move Along Home, Threshold, A Night In Sickbay).
When you consider the vast history of the franchise, 6 shows and 11 films, it is a wonder there is so much great stuff there, really. Trek gets it right most of the time. I just take the good with the bad.
No, I totally agree with you. I didn't mean to suggest that the majority of viewers are like that, simply that my perception of the most vocal viewers who post here seem to suffer from these tendencies. In other words, the loudmouths from the niche of the niche of the niche.
Ahhh, my bad then. I shouldn't respond to things when I'm so sleep deprived. Re-reding your post, it made my sense to me.
HEAR, HEAR!
I guess that virtually everybody registered on these forums is a ST fan. This being the case why do we spend so much time criticising it. I know that ST is not perfect but to read a lot of the posts on here you might think that you were reading a "I Hate Star Trek" forum.
Any opinions?
For the record I like all the series and all the films, so there.
I like star trek in general, most series and movies..... but every so often I'll nit pick about something that may have bugged me, but overall it's trivial and not a big deal.... I do it more for conversation sake.
But there are some things I see people complain about that makes me want to pull out a Picard Facepalm..... but at the same time, I imagine some of my things I talk about are regarded the same way by others.
Keep in mind there's piles of people who complain about The Matrix, or the Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter.... yet are still fans.
It's just the way it is.
BOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to a quick Google search, there are 726 episodes in 30 seasons of 6 shows (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT), as well as 11 feature films with 3 primary casts. This doesn't begin to mention several hundred original novels, computer games, board games, television commercials, and a ton of other things.
Is it that hard to believe that a franchise of such sprawling proportions would produce material that wouldn't appeal to everybody (or, anybody, see VOY: Threshold)?
Is it that hard to believe that a franchise of such sprawling proportions would produce material that wouldn't appeal to everybody (or, anybody, see VOY: Threshold)?
