Lucille gets around:Anyone watch Supernatural?
Walking Dead Season 7 Discussion - Spoilers possible!
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Yeah, that was very Season 3, "Clear" Morgan. I liked Richard's character, even the motivations he had even if I didn't entirely agree with how he wanted to shove The Kingdom into agro.
I did really like Nabila, "Okay, I just peed myself."
Now Carol knows the truth and is ready to fight and, finally, so is Ezekiel. He's seen how unreasonable The Saviors can be. He had a good "working relationship", or as close to one as you can have, with The Saviors and they seemed to appreciate that; but one drop and they're late on arrival (due to roadblock) and short one damn cantaloupe and it's slaughtering time!
The leader of this outpost didn't seem to "want to do it" but acted as if "had to do it," to his "credit" he was upset it was the kid. Which, knew the kid would have to be the one to die to push Ezekiel into action.
Tense episode with the montage of Morgan breaking down and his killing of Richard was just brutal, again, very Season 3's "Clear" Morgan.
One damn cantaloupe.
That's what's interesting when it comes to The Saviors and what they ask for as offerings. A dozen cantaloupes seems like a pretty damn small offering, as does the few baskets of produce in the previous drop and the few slaughtered pigs before that. Sure a lot of work and effort goes into the growing of that produce and the feeding and slaughtering of the animals but, again, it seems small compared to how we've seen Alexandria and The Hilltop getting treated where they seem to take truck loads of stuff. (Though in Alexandria's case it was the initial 50% offering, and later them working out of the "debt" they're in for all of Negan's men they've killed.)
But 12 damn cantaloupes for an offering? That's not out of necessity, need, survival, or anything of the sort. That's just being damn petty. It's tugging on the leash, nothing more. And then to execute someone and take action over one missing cantaloupe after such good interactions in the past? All about power.
That's one of the issues I've had with the Saviours, they're too vicious at times and taking that kind of action over one piece of fruit just shows it. I guess they didn't necessarily intend for Benjamin to die, but surely any time you wound anymore in the post apocalyptic world, with few doctors and fewer meds, you have to imagine there's a high chance they might die.
There's a fine line between keeping the local populace fearful and subservient, and pushing them over the line until they figure they might as well fight back. The Kingdom have been nothing but accommodating and the Saviours have just been dicks (even before this particular incident). Frankly even without Rick, even without Richard, you can imagine eventually Ezekiel would realise he has to fight.
Great episode, and even though Benjamin dying has been obvious for weeks, Morgan's reaction to it surprised me, mainly in its viciousness. I hope he can find some balance between Clear Morgan and Zen Morgan though.
Given their previous interactions the lead Savior likely felt it was implied that Richard would be the first one to go as a show of force, but it seemed long-haired DB Savior had darker plans and ideas. (I guess like killing Glenn instead of Daryl, it's seen as "more punishment" to kill someone else when someone attacks, it being a greater punishment on the attacker.)
But the Saviors ruthlessness you'd think very much works against them and is a good reason why "The War" will work in Rick's favor, there's likely a LOT of a Saviors, even the leaders of outposts and the "Negan" circle who see Negan as an "evil" they all have to put up with because they have no other choice and for all of his faults, he is "providing."
But, certainly, his lieutenants don't all relish seeing their doctor tossed in a furnace, seeing a man's face half-burned because he slept with his (former) wife/girlfriend who was forced to enter a polygamist relationship with Negan in order to save someone.
So this is why the The War can only work in Rick's favor, there's likely people in the Sanctuary who'll fight against Negan if motivated to or have the opportunity, and further see their life/living conditions either not change or improve.
This lieutenant likely would be on Rick's side of "The War" because it seemed he didn't really want to do these things but, on some level, felt he "had to" in order to maintain the balance of power and ensure he can get the offerings. (He likely has to make his own offerings to the Sanctuary from the stuff he collects.) He was clearly upset with long-haired dude for shooting at the kid and the kid's ultimate death, and wanted to be "reasonable" with Ezekiel.
But, it's worth noting that all powerful regimes over the course of human history have ruled heavily and without compassion even though it should seem in the long-run it'd be against their best interests to do so and in the vast majority of these cases the uprising is successful against a tyrannical regime. Sometimes it takes generations sometimes, I guess, it takes a couple years.
But the Saviors ruthlessness you'd think very much works against them and is a good reason why "The War" will work in Rick's favor, there's likely a LOT of a Saviors, even the leaders of outposts and the "Negan" circle who see Negan as an "evil" they all have to put up with because they have no other choice and for all of his faults, he is "providing."
But, certainly, his lieutenants don't all relish seeing their doctor tossed in a furnace, seeing a man's face half-burned because he slept with his (former) wife/girlfriend who was forced to enter a polygamist relationship with Negan in order to save someone.
So this is why the The War can only work in Rick's favor, there's likely people in the Sanctuary who'll fight against Negan if motivated to or have the opportunity, and further see their life/living conditions either not change or improve.
This lieutenant likely would be on Rick's side of "The War" because it seemed he didn't really want to do these things but, on some level, felt he "had to" in order to maintain the balance of power and ensure he can get the offerings. (He likely has to make his own offerings to the Sanctuary from the stuff he collects.) He was clearly upset with long-haired dude for shooting at the kid and the kid's ultimate death, and wanted to be "reasonable" with Ezekiel.
But, it's worth noting that all powerful regimes over the course of human history have ruled heavily and without compassion even though it should seem in the long-run it'd be against their best interests to do so and in the vast majority of these cases the uprising is successful against a tyrannical regime. Sometimes it takes generations sometimes, I guess, it takes a couple years.
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Well, rule through absolute fear of death (for breaking any of Negan's seemingly endless rules) is the only way he could have controlled two communities--and run off a third (Oceanside) over the course of the ZA, and we have to assume Negan's been "a thing" since the early days. So while being short one cantaloupe seems petty, the punishment for it makes sense--from a tyrant's POV.
There is no realistic balance between being a crazed, homicidal mass murderer (who thought his inherited job was to kill all humans and walkers in sight) and a spiritual, "all life is precious"-believing wise man only fighting when necessary. I think too many fans want to see this sort of crazed, Rambo-like killing from Morgan and Carol (and a return of season 5-6 Rick), but there's a price to that, as it alters characters in ways that are not reversible--particularly in Morgan's case, as he had to go through a serious transformation (with a now dead instructor) to shed the insanity of his "clear" days. Going back to vengeful killer status would be a sad way to wreck one of the most complex characters in TWD's history.
That was a tragic episode... Richard was right about the need to go to war, and his heart was in the right place...but he made some really bad decisions.
I hoped he would survive long enough to go to war. The actor did a great job making him one we could care about.
I hope Gavin, the Savior lieutenant, will survive and switch to the rebel alliance. He's a (relatively) good guy
I hoped he would survive long enough to go to war. The actor did a great job making him one we could care about.
I hope Gavin, the Savior lieutenant, will survive and switch to the rebel alliance. He's a (relatively) good guy
Yet it would be a completely believeable character breakdown after a few years of the zombie apocalypse, seeing friend after friend die.
I think I would have been okay with Morgan commiting suicide at the end there. The story earned it. Peaceful Morgan simply could not live in the ZA.
But don't get me wrong. I like Morgan and am happy to see him stick around and join the fight.
Though as Rick and Michonne reminded us the previous week, the war may be coming, but we might not be thrilled with how it all plays out.
i hope he decides to Carol, and leave -- AFTER the war. He can show up in the last few episodes...if Rick survives (or Carl), it'd be a nice end to the show. It's probable he dies, but it would be a nice change of pace if he didn't.
TWD is an occasionally depressing series (natural part of its premise and execution), but a Morgan suicide would be too much, and yet another character who tried to see a hopeful, different kind of life snuffed out, like Dale, T-Dog, Hershel, Bob, Beth & Tyreese before him. That's repetitive and drapes hopelessness over any kind of decent future for whoever ends up surviving down the road.
Oh, we know there will be losses--Morgan and Father Gabriel both flatly warned that was on the horizon--but in order to set off the war, the not-so-Dynamic Duo of Rosita & Sasha will pull their brainless assassination attempt, and...you know the rest.
Sasha's character has gone about as far as she can, arguably Rosita too but there's other reasons for Sasha to be on the block.
Yeah it'd be nice if more of the hopeful characters could survive. I think its a fallacy to suggest decentness always equates to weakness after the ZA. That's one of many reasons I wished they hadn't killed Glenn.
I agree that there may not be a way back for Morgan, but I hope there is.
This discussion is now trending into "how should it end?" land for me... Thinking about who will survive and who won't.. Seems to me like Rick is the Moses figurehead.. The leader who shepherds them through the worst, but inevitably, won't have a seat at the table once it's over, if it ever will be.. I envision the last episode doing a big jump ahead in time to find that the remnants of human society have finally built a wall that can hold off the walkers and includes some semblance of government and purpose.. Maybe with Carl as the leader... I dunno.. But it has to have some kind of endgame. The comic can keep going and going, but they have to have some kind of vision about the TV show...
I agree. They ought to have it plotted out, and set up so they can replace characters if they decide to kill them off in the mean time.
Basically, it would be their final season, and have it ready for whenever they feel they have their 2nd to last season ready
Most certainly. It would definitely add to the drama. In that case, we would know literally ANYONE could die.
And the effect would be even greater on the characters then Glenn dying. That aftermath season could make either a good finale or good standalone
The French are our last hope. They kept working on understanding the virus even after everyone else had given up.
I honestly wonder how they'll end this show on anything approaching a remotely satisfying note.
Given the tone and themes of TWD it only makes sense for the human race to go extinct.
Have somebody maybe Carl kill say I dunno a thousand zombies before being overrun and then the screen goes up to a brownish dead earth que dark sad music-humanity is extinct. Honestly that's the only outcome that either isn't a cheat or doesn't leaving some plot thread hanging.
Given the tone and themes of TWD it only makes sense for the human race to go extinct.
Have somebody maybe Carl kill say I dunno a thousand zombies before being overrun and then the screen goes up to a brownish dead earth que dark sad music-humanity is extinct. Honestly that's the only outcome that either isn't a cheat or doesn't leaving some plot thread hanging.
Miracle cure or extinction
The last option is that they find a civilization, say middle America (from North to South) that is united & rebuilding...one part providing some farming, another oil/gas, etc. But that season, when they find it, they are suspicious, and some dangers still arise...but in the end, they find "normality"
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