Walking Dead Season 7 Discussion - Spoilers possible!

[publiusr]

I thought it was pretty obvious the Abraham would the one--he was the only one in the group not lowering his eyes, not cowering. He held his back straight and looked Negan right in the eye, silently confronting him. There's no way Negan would miss that sign of defiance so Abraham was the logical choice..

That was my thought as well

Jeffery Dean Morgan is doing a fantastic job with Negan as being a character you love and hate at the same time. He cold, brutal, and to his word. While at the same time being charming and kind of charismatic..

Ironically--it is Simon I can't stand, even though we haven't seen him kill anyone, yet: http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Simon_(TV_Series)

Negan is like Saddam--a stabie devil you know. In some respects, he let the group off easy--seeing that they wiped out an entire cell.

Negan may have thought that Rick and company figured Negan's group were just low-grade threats, like the Wolves.

I've often wondered how Negan would react to the Governor and other threats. The Gov really didn't want leadership in his second commanding role.

It's less about the individual deaths and more that Negan actually broke Rick. Rick is usually defiant against everyone they come across. But he's left in this episode cry and pleading to have his own hand cut off. Generally any death motivated the group to revenge, but now they're just left stunned and barely able to function.

That bespeaks Negan's competence as an effective leader. Evil? Certainly.

An argument could indeed be made that Rick was overly aggressive with his murder spree on the Savior compound when they could have taken them hostage and possibly negotiated a settlement. I doubt Negan would have accepted it, .

I think that might have enraged Negan even more. He respected Rick's move as a bold one. Had Rick tried to negotiate, Negan would have tried to kill the whole group. Had Carol simply stayed home like she should have--this doesn't happen. More of a straight-up fight, but probably more losses.

I think calling this "Misery Porn" is a bit strong when we've had a number of fun, upbeat, episodes. .

We will get a break this next episode, by the looks of The Kingdom.

 

[bbjeg]

...Ironically--it is Simon I can't stand, even though we haven't seen him kill anyone, yet: http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Simon_(TV_Series)

I like him solely because the actor, Steven Ogg, plays Trevor in Grand Theft Auto V. Part of me likes to think they are one and the same character.

 

[Trekker4747]

We will get a break this next episode, by the looks of The Kingdom.

Yeah, I think we're supposed to spend the next couple of episodes in The Kingdom which, really, can only be fun. A bunch of guys who were LARPing when the apocalypse happened and they just stuck with it.

I re-watched the episode tonight with by buddy, who hadn't seen it yet. He'd heard some of the rumors going around but avoided spoilers. We usually eat as we watch it, which normally isn't a problem so he asked me if this episode had crossed some lines considering most of the internet's reaction.

I told him the deaths are gruesome and brutal by not nearly as bad as some of the stuff we've seen with the walkers. It just feels more brutal due to the emotional connection we have with the characters and seeing their reactions. During the first commercial he asked if they were drawing it out for the whole episode, I told him that it happens as soon as we get back from the commercial. He wasn't too surprised at the deaths considering what happens in the comics, though slightly annoyed at Daryl's shield of protection given the popularity of his character so when he acted out he wasn't the one to be punished.

He agreed most of the "gruesomeness" of the deaths was all in the emotional connection we have with the characters and the reactions, but the visuals of the deaths weren't as bad as much of the stuff we've seen with the walkers and even some of the other human deaths.

I noticed something I didn't catch the first time through.

When Negan tosses out the axe I thought Rick was lucky to have crawled on top of the RV to get away from the walkers which happened to be where Negan tossed the axe. (A hatchet?!) Watching Negan this time I clearly noticed Negan's arm reaching up to toss the ax on the roof and there was a sound effect of the ax's tumble as it lands there. I wonder if Rick himself heard this and, thus, knew where to go for the ax instead of it being out mixed with the walkers. Still, "possible" he climbed up there to get away from the walkers and just ended up being lucky.

Really paid attention to Lincoln's acting this time around, particularly the "look" he gave Negan setting off the charade with Carl and, sure enough, he gives Negan the Rick-look and it's very gone after Rick breaks. Noticed The Savior taking the Polaroid of Abraham's remains. Also paid attention to Lauren Cohan's acting during the final scene with her saying they need to fight while everyone else is broken. Also very good work from her between acting in intense emotional pain, physical pain/disomfort die to illness, and having to do this with the pseudo-Southern accent Maggie has as opposed to Cohan's usual English accent.

I wonder if Glenn's baby will survive? On top of whatever happened to prompt Maggie needing to go to The Hilltop, the emotional stress on top of the physical stress Maggie's experienced over the last 12 hours cannot be good for the fetus.

Also good acting from Chandler Riggs during his scenes, I like how he was a bit lippy with Negan as Negan asks Carl if he's a "southpaw" and then about the tightness of the belt.

Jeffery Dean Morgan, really is a delight and a pleasure. He just makes the whole thing too much fun, almost making it hard to dislike Negan because JDM just makes him so much fun.

Anyway, be really interested to visit The Kingdom this weekend.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Much to this episode.

Okay, giving the Saviors walker-fed pigs seems like a smart plan, but does it work? The Terminus cannibals ate Bob's infected flesh, but they did not last long enough to see the effects. Here's the dark side to this: Daryl is a captive of the Saviors and if he eats any of it, we might be witnessing the end of Daryl's run on the series. If that's the case, and Daryl finds out, I would not be surprised if he plans some "end all" attack to cripple the Saviors. With nothing to lose, he could be a nightmare.

Morgan's trainee reminds me of Zack (Beth's boyfriend) from "30 Days Without an Accident"; a hopeful young man who ends up in a situation beyond his abilities.

Ezekiel's past seems pretty bleak, but how the Kingdom formed remains a mystery.

Carol is at her lowest point, but has warmed up to Morgan. Still, she's determined to isolate herself, and that sounds like a recipe for disaster--either by her own hand, or the Saviors. The last thing I want to see is Carol hiding away until the situation goes so south that she tries to come to the rescue, but has lost her edge, and ends up an easy victim.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Oh Lord watching TWD I realize Cyborg from Teen Titans is Ezekiel. His natural voice is pretty close to that but he did a really goodbye job with the Ezekiel character. Odd to see an episode with a minimum of shiftiness even though not scot-free with the Saviors.

Okay, giving the Saviors walker-fed pigs seems like a smart plan, but does it work? The Terminus cannibals ate Bob's infected flesh, but they did not last long enough to see the effects.

I figured that was more like pissing in the punchbowl, a grim F-U on their masters, maybe one that might make them sick but not more than that.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I figured that was more like pissing in the punchbowl, a grim F-U on their masters, maybe one that might make them sick but not more than that.

Would that be wise? If the Saviors become ill from infected pigs, that would be an easy excuse for Negan to punish Kingdom members, or simply demand something else. If I were in Ezekiel's place, I would only feed them infected pigs if it leads to death.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ dunno if it's wise or not, depends if it can be pinned on them, maybe not the best idea

Just saw a commercial for a Walking Dead lottery ticket here in Michigan!

 

[Awesome Possum]

Everyone is already infected anyway so I'm not sure how much damage they could do. It seemed more like a F-U to Negan like the kitchen staff spitting in the food of an annoying customer.

 

[Trekker4747]

I was confused at first on them feeding the pigs the walkers, because a) it's not usually a good idea to eat animals that eat other animals as a primary food source, let alone people let alone people who've been rotting for almost 3 years. And the whole "you need to cook pork to well done" notion came from a time of feeding pigs slop meaning the meat had to be cooked to a high enough temperature to kill any pathogens in the meat lest you get a tape worm or something. Today pigs are feed grain, corn, and other sustained diets making the meat a better quality and less contaminated meaning you can eat pork at medium doneness.

So I was baffled on why The Kingdom was giving their food source rotted meat then it dawned on me that they're used for the offering to The Saviors. As for any problems with eating that? Short-term if the meat is cooked properly there'd be little if any problems, if it's not cooked properly it's more likely to lead to intestinal parasites more than any serious illness. Over the long-term it's possible people who ate enough of the meat could develop something akin to Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD, "Mad Cow") leading to Alzheimer's-Like conditions late in life. It's for this reason animals used as a source of food in this country, if they're fed meat or meat by-products, cannot be fed brain matter or spinal tissue, nor can cow brains be used as a source of food for people (though it's a delicacy in some cuisines.)

So, that all said, it'd overall not be a problem. It's worth remembering that everyone has "The Walker Disease" and turns upon death so there's nothing walker-related to "catch" in the meat. The only thing to worry about is transfer of pathogens, which is taken care of in the cooking process.

Tainting the meat for The Saviors is a good plan as a thumb-of-the-nose to The Saviors, and considering this is a show where after the better part of 3 years people are still finding viable cars, car batteries, gasoline, and medicines I doubt the show will get into the long-term health effects of Daryl possibly eating pork that's come a source fed walkers.

I'm sick of Carol, she's sort of turned into a real pain-in-the-ass bitch. Hopefully Ezekiel well help her get over herself and come back to Earth (such that it is) her behavior and treatment of the other Kingdom-ites was just shitty. I understand her skepticism and such when meeting Ezekiel but you'd think after having spent a few days if not a couple of weeks there she'd have realized what kind of community it was. They were having friggin' choir practice for crying out loud!

The Kingdom was awesome to see, and really can give one hope for this world and the guy playing Ezekiel was great in his performance and use of flowery language. Loved his digital tiger, and really liked the scene where he let his hair down (so to speak) and opened up to Carol. You'd think him giving her a "real moment" would have caused her to snap out of it, break down and open up to him or something. But she did seem to sort-of come around given where she decided to settle.

FWIW: I don't think you can, easily, grow Pomegranates in the Mid-Atlantic region.

Good stiff with Morgan, again great stuff with Ezekiel and look forward to seeing more of The Kingdom and further the alliance between The Kingdom, The Hilltop, Alexandria in order to take-on The Saviors.

It was very nice to have such a light and fun episode after the opener.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

FWIW: I don't think you can, easily, grow Pomegranates in the Mid-Atlantic region.

That's because you've never fed 'em walkers.

 

[Morpheus 02]

This was a good contrast to last week...

a few random thoughts... I wonder this about the father of Morgan's new disciple: rather than an attack, it was Negan who killed him (and perhaps other). And the inevitable consequence... he does something stupid that results in his death and others death


I hope we see the beginning of a Ezekiel - Carol romance....but appreciate the real friendship Carol and Morgan have established. At the very least, Ezekiel needs someone to keep him grounded, so he doesn't believe his own fantasy

The Talking Dead was great too -- loved seeing the "real" Khary Peyton and his insights and jokes. Hope he stays for a while.

And also -- Ezekiel's guard, Jerry!

 

[Morpheus 02]

Everyone is already infected anyway so I'm not sure how much damage they could do. It seemed more like a F-U to Negan like the kitchen staff spitting in the food of an annoying customer.

if it's tainted meat... then theoretically they could spread the bacteria which kills people (i.e. gives them a fever and death within a day or 2), and then the virus turns them into a walker (but apparently, that bacteria is only in the teeth)

 

[Awesome Possum]

I had gotten the impression they had been doing it for a while. The only one Ezekiel explains it to is Morgan, the others were treating it like a routine.

 

[Borgminister]

That's not Tainted Love....! Surprisingly good eppy even if filleresque. After all these years to hold interest is something. Nice execution. Kind of makes me hope Discovery can capture this kind of consistent storytelling. Alas, it has no graphic novel to plagiarize.....

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

if it's tainted meat... then theoretically they could spread the bacteria which kills people (i.e. gives them a fever and death within a day or 2), and then the virus turns them into a walker (but apparently, that bacteria is only in the teeth)

That's could be the case. Although the Gareth & Friends did not last long enough for the audience to see the effects of eating tainted meat, their instant alarm at Bob's bomb-dropping meant they must have had reason to think there could be a negative (i.e. lethal) experience from eating infected meat. The Terminus crew said, "We might as well be eating one of them" and "What the hell's gonna happen? Are we gonna turn? Are we just gonna die?" So, even if the effects were not conclusive (to the audience at that time), its enough information that could suggest there's nothing good that will come from that. For all we know, The Kingdom could have watched a full reaction sometime in the past, hence Ezekiel's loaded pigs.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'm sick of Carol, she's sort of turned into a real pain-in-the-ass bitch. Hopefully Ezekiel well help her get over herself and come back to Earth (such that it is) her behavior and treatment of the other Kingdom-ites was just shitty. I understand her skepticism and such when meeting Ezekiel but you'd think after having spent a few days if not a couple of weeks there she'd have realized what kind of community it was. They were having friggin' choir practice for crying out loud!

In a way, she's suffering from the same problem as one of her personal demons: Lizzie. The entire issue with the child was that professional psychiatric help no longer existed, so she had nothing to pull her back. Carol is in that same position, as she's still suffering from losing Sophia, killing Lizzie, feeling responsible for Sam's mental collapse, the constant killing with no real resolution for life. Adding to that, Melissa McBride recently said she thinks Carol is still dealing with the death of T-Dog! So, she's a deep well of problems that are never--and cannot be properly, professionally addressed.

Perhaps Morgan--who was brought back from his tragedy-fueled murder spree by Eastman--is the only way back to the light, but for the moment, she's resistant to any form of counseling.

Good stiff with Morgan, again great stuff with Ezekiel and look forward to seeing more of The Kingdom and further the alliance between The Kingdom, The Hilltop, Alexandria in order to take-on The Saviors.

It was very nice to have such a light and fun episode after the opener.

Agreed.

Regarding any alliance, the Hilltop cannot be trusted under current leadership, and even if Maggie becomes the leader, will she still want to mount an offensive--knowing exactly how the Saviors deal with threats?

 

[Q2UnME]

I saw the pig situation more as a big F-U to the Saviors and also as a way to conserve their own limited resources. Why use grain and vegetables that you have in limited supply to feed pigs you're ultimately going to give to your oppressors when Walkers will do? Keeps the food with your people and the oppressors are none the wiser.

Q2

 

[Grendelsbayne]

That's could be the case. Although the Gareth & Friends did not last long enough for the audience to see the effects of eating tainted meat, their instant alarm at Bob's bomb-dropping meant they must have had reason to think there could be a negative (i.e. lethal) experience from eating infected meat. The Terminus crew said, "We might as well be eating one of them" and "What the hell's gonna happen? Are we gonna turn? Are we just gonna die?" So, even if the effects were not conclusive (to the audience at that time), its enough information that could suggest there's nothing good that will come from that. For all we know, The Kingdom could have watched a full reaction sometime in the past, hence Ezekiel's loaded pigs.

Those quotes don't really suggest anything but ignorance, though. Of course people would be horrified at the thought of 'tainted meat', just like they're horrified at the thought of meat that fell on the ground or touched a garbage can (and when the entire world is shaped by a virus that animates the dead, 'tainted' takes on a whole new level of psychological revulsion). It doesn't really constitute actual evidence as to the real health risks involved, though.

Which is not to say there are no risks. There may well be. This could be exactly the direction the show is going with this. But there's no clear evidence either way just yet.

 

[bbjeg]

Fine episode. The Kingdom seems like the place I'd love to find in a zombie apocalypse and horses at this point makes way more since than cars. Carol is being a bit of a buzz kill, especially after becoming Lady Rambo in disguise a couple of seasons ago. I do hope she comes back around. I have a feeling this season will end in war. When King Ezekiel said that "they'll lose" a fight against the Saviors, I immediately thought of the arsenal Alexandria holds. They have enough guns to arm themselves, the Kingdom, and the Hilltop. Yeah, I think the group was broken at their last encounter with the Saviors, but it feels like there is only one outcome for our cast. I don't see them bowing down to the Saviors wishes, especially after all the crap they've been through.


And I bet Daryl is kicking himself in more ways than one. Do you know how secure they would have been if he climbed that tank and shot the people inside it instead of grenading it? That dude said it, "the end of the world don't mean squat when you got a tank."

That's could be the case. Although the Gareth & Friends did not last long enough for the audience to see the effects of eating tainted meat, their instant alarm at Bob's bomb-dropping meant they must have had reason to think there could be a negative (i.e. lethal) experience from eating infected meat. The Terminus crew said, "We might as well be eating one of them" and "What the hell's gonna happen? Are we gonna turn? Are we just gonna die?" So, even if the effects were not conclusive (to the audience at that time), its enough information that could suggest there's nothing good that will come from that. For all we know, The Kingdom could have watched a full reaction sometime in the past, hence Ezekiel's loaded pigs.

We saw at the prison that the flu spread from tainted water (or was it vegetables). It seems, along with bites, once the virus gets into the bloodstream, even through ingestion, you become a zombie.

 

[sojourner]

We saw at the prison that the flu spread from tainted water (or was it vegetables). It seems, along with bites, once the virus gets into the bloodstream, even through ingestion, you become a zombie.

The flu at the prison was a separate illness. It killed, then the zombie virus took over and reanimated.