VOY: Unworthy by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[14thDoctor]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^It would appear that there never was a Batiste, or not one that any living person in Starfleet would remember. I didn't like that plotline much either, but overall the Voyager relaunch has improved in leaps and bounds since the Golden era (how ironic is that comment?) and I look forward to seeing where it goes from here.

There probably was a Batiste at some point. The earliest the Species 8472 Batiste could have infiltrated Starfleet was 2374 (as that is the year Scorpion ended). By the time of Unworthy in 2381, he could have been in that role at most 8 years, an awfully short time to start from scratch and become Admiral. And I doubt it would be terribly easy to just appear in Starfleet as a Commander or something without anyone noticing. So he probably did replace a 'real' Batiste who had already moved up the ranks on his own.

Well, if 8472 could infiltrate Starfleets computer network, they could easily create a personnel file for a Commander who's been on extended leave for a few years, or who's just returned from a long assignment on some backwater planet...

 

[Pegaritaville]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^It would appear that there never was a Batiste, or not one that any living person in Starfleet would remember. I didn't like that plotline much either, but overall the Voyager relaunch has improved in leaps and bounds since the Golden era (how ironic is that comment?) and I look forward to seeing where it goes from here.

There probably was a Batiste at some point. The earliest the Species 8472 Batiste could have infiltrated Starfleet was 2374 (as that is the year Scorpion ended). By the time of Unworthy in 2381, he could have been in that role at most 8 years, an awfully short time to start from scratch and become Admiral. And I doubt it would be terribly easy to just appear in Starfleet as a Commander or something without anyone noticing. So he probably did replace a 'real' Batiste who had already moved up the ranks on his own.

Well, if 8472 could infiltrate Starfleets computer network, they could easily create a personnel file for a Commander who's been on extended leave for a few years, or who's just returned from a long assignment on some backwater planet...

That scenario doesn't paint Starfleet Security in a very flattering light. Granted, they have a pretty spotty track record, but I think even they would notice if a fairly high ranking officer suddenly appeared in the records. And since in the Trek universe just about every high ranking officer seems to know each other (small galaxy syndrome), it seems even more implausible. I suppose it's possible, but I tend to think the real Batise bit the dust when the 8-4-7-2 version showed up.

 

[T'Ressa Dax]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Hey, maybe 8472 absorbed all the real Batiste's knowledge first! <G>

Seriously, I just finished enjoying the book. I'm refusing to speculate on anything with Cambridge and Seven, instead I'm just going to trust the writers and see what happens.
And I'm wondering if Cambridge's interest could be another way he's like House: the interest doesn't neceassarily mean it's going to be returned or anything.

I thought of another reason Eden wasn't in a big hurry to set the Indign straight about the Borg being gone. They might not have believed her and could have decided to attack Voyager. Which happened anyway.

I couldn't help but think Harry was behaving like the younger brother who'd just discovered his older siblings weren't perfect after all and was having trouble dealing with that along with all the changes happening around him. But I'm glad to see him and Tom back on the holodeck together.

 

[Csalem]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Enjoyed this book, very well written and VGR is now one of my favourite series. My only tiny problem was calling the captain of the Galen Glenn. I kept mixing the two names up, but that's probably because I was reading too fast.

 

[Josh Kelton]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I wonder if calling the ship "Galen" was inspired by Professor Galen from STNG or it was simply just a coincidence.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^It's a medical ship. It's named after Galen, the famous ancient physician. As a rule, just about any "Galen" you come across in fiction has probably been named in honor of Galen of Pergamum. I'm not sure why they would've named Picard's archaeology professor after a great medical scholar, but they probably did, perhaps just because it's a name associated with wise, scholarly figures (see also Galen the Technomage in the Babylon 5 spinoff Crusade and Galen the chimpanzee scientist in the Planet of the Apes TV series).

 

[Trek]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Finished this book last night and between this and Full Circle my interest in Voyager has been rekindled to a level not seen since season 4 of the show.

Great work!

 

[jjh19]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Just finished the book and along with Full Circle, I was completely impressed. I found the Voyager characters as depicted by Kirsten Beyer to be richer and more full of life than they were in many, many Voyager episodes.

Chakotay and his journey as it weaves through the Destiny time line were especially interesting to me. What a chain of events!

I'm hooked and hope for many more Voyager adventure crafted by Kirsten. A+.

 

[Will Lucky]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Really good book as I read it today after recieving it at Christmas. I quite enjoyed the character additions although the only main character I felt lacking was Kim, I hope he has more time in the next book.

I really do love the new direction the series is being taken and can't wait to see where it goes next year.

 

[KimMH]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I gave this an excellent rating - I enjoyed this and Full Circle immensely. I can't enthuse too much without actually spoiling, but I do have to say this is a very satisfying read for any Voyager fan and is well crafted enough for and ST fan to enjoy.

Kirstens Beyers own love of the franchise is evident in her careful characterization and their interactions. There is intrigue and action and heartfelt comraderie and some fence mending. A great read and I hope she writes more voyager and soon! As many stars as possible rating-wise!

 

[USS Intrepid]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Just finished Unworthy last night. Kirsten, thanks for another excellent Voyager novel. I'm loving thre set up here, and sincerely hope you continue to write these novels for many years to come.

 

[Nerroth]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I haven't read the book yet, but I was wonderign about the portrayal of 8472:


Is it tied to the multi-versal viewpoint given for the species in Myriad Universes' Places of Exile?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I haven't read the book yet, but I was wonderign about the portrayal of 8472:

Is it tied to the multi-versal viewpoint given for the species in Myriad Universes' Places of Exile?

No, there's no connection.

 

[Nerroth]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I haven't read the book yet, but I was wonderign about the portrayal of 8472:

Is it tied to the multi-versal viewpoint given for the species in Myriad Universes' Places of Exile?

No, there's no connection.

I see.

(The impression I got from Places of Exile was that the story was trying to account for all versions of 8472 to appear in any timeline, something I didn't feel to be too great a development when I read that particular story...)

 

[Christopher]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^Yeah, that was my intention, but Kirsten didn't choose to pick up on it, I guess because she had her own story to tell.

 

[Nerroth]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^Yeah, that was my intention, but Kirsten didn't choose to pick up on it, I guess because she had her own story to tell.

Hang on a second.

When Places of Exile was being written, presumably the story would have been vetted before publication - especially with a multiverse-affecting revelation like '8472 are telling all non-fluidic forms of space they won't return our calls anymore' being added to it.


If that was the case, where was the decision made to allow a story like this one to side-step that altogether?


(Personally, I'm glad that 8472 aren't gone from every timeline - but I am left wondering what explanation there is to have one or more timeline side-step the PoE matter.)

 

[Christopher]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^Well, first off, Unworthy may not directly tie into PoE, but it doesn't fundamentally contradict it. There's a slight inconsistency with regard to the ease of making an "unauthorized" entry into fluidic space, but the novel presents it in terms of something made possible by a particular type of spatial anomaly, so it's not irreconcilable.

Second, with all the editorial shakeups of the past year, it's understandable that a minor glitch or two would slip through the cracks.

Third, it would've been hard to incorporate references to PoE in Unworthy without a lot of exposition about stuff that was irrelevant to that novel's story.

And finally, I made it clear in PoE that while the 8472s/Groundskeepers were given the ability to "shut the door" between fluidic space and our universe, they also had the ability to reopen it if they chose. It was never my intention to pre-empt any future stories about 8472 in the main timeline.

 

[Nerroth]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

^Well, first off, Unworthy may not directly tie into PoE, but it doesn't fundamentally contradict it. There's a slight inconsistency with regard to the ease of making an "unauthorized" entry into fluidic space, but the novel presents it in terms of something made possible by a particular type of spatial anomaly, so it's not irreconcilable.

That sounds reasonable enough.

Second, with all the editorial shakeups of the past year, it's understandable that a minor glitch or two would slip through the cracks.

I'm not entirely sure I'd consider the fate of 8472 to be minor, but that's just me - and point taken.

Third, it would've been hard to incorporate references to PoE in Unworthy without a lot of exposition about stuff that was irrelevant to that novel's story.

On the one hand, I suppose the Voyager crew in this timeline would not be expected to have any idea about what the PoE crew experienced - but I guess a note from an 8472 point of view, or rather from one of the Groundskeepers in fluidic space already (if the agents in this timeline didn't know what had happened in their absence) might have been something.

But then, it's not a point I'd want to overly labour, anyway.

And finally, I made it clear in PoE that while the 8472s/Groundskeepers were given the ability to "shut the door" between fluidic space and our universe, they also had the ability to reopen it if they chose. It was never my intention to pre-empt any future stories about 8472 in the main timeline.

I appreciate that, but I must confess that despite the get-out clause, it really felt like the door was being closed on 8472 for the foreseeable, across all timelines - but it seems that the example in unworthy is proving me wrong.

I can live with that.

(Not least because it might also leave the door slightly ajar for mirror-8472 - who, I suppose, we have at least some idea of what they might be like, given the common point of origin in fluidic space.)

 

[Christopher]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

I appreciate that, but I must confess that despite the get-out clause, it really felt like the door was being closed on 8472 for the foreseeable, across all timelines - but it seems that the example in unworthy is proving me wrong.

Yeah, that really wasn't my intention. I was just trying to resolve the particular problem I'd set up, and to explain why we never heard from 8472 again after "In the Flesh." And keep in mind that Unworthy takes place 6 years after PoE's climax. Things can change in 6 years.

(Not least because it might also leave the door slightly ajar for mirror-8472 - who, I suppose, we have at least some idea of what they might be like, given the common point of origin in fluidic space.)

The Mirror Universe is simply another timeline of our universe, as far as the 8472 are concerned. What goes for other timelines would go for the MU as well.

 

[DimesDan]

Re: Unworthy - Discuss/Grade Thread <SPOILERS>

Just a slight comment addressing the last few posts and the events of Places of Exile and Unworthy.

Now the novel intercontinuity is pretty good and all, but I as under the impression that if a writer wishes to contradict and or just plain right disregard what has come before, he or she can. So in this case Kirsten (as Christopher rightly said) had her own story to tell regarding 8472 and thus completely disregard what Christopher wrote in Places of Exile. So to actually make a point instead of non sentrical ramblings, maybe Kirsten just wasn't keen on the ideas Christopher put forward in Places of Exile.