Unseen TOS....

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Warped9, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Other than windows I've added the last remaining details I had in mind. I could get more detailed, but that would be going far beyond what we could remotely expect to see on something that would only be glimpsed onscreen. I might use the same hull markings I used on my previous Valiant 3D model, but the rest of the markings are a question. At this point of the second pilot it's likely UESPA (United Earth Space Probe Agency) hadb't yet been conceived although it would be referenced in the very early episodes. With that in mind I suppose it wouldn't be reaching too far speculating it could have been floating around in someone's mind as a vague idea even at this early stage. A registration prefix is another question mark. Of course I could presently forego all that and just plaster the ship's name onto the hull.

    [​IMG]

    If I may say so I rather like how this is coming out. I think it looks suitably retro futuristic for the purpose. It looks advanced in terms of how a 1960's audience might see it yet it also looks less evolved than the Enterprise.

    I must say seeing something like this in a prequel series or film or even fan production could be rather neat as humanity took its first interstellar steps into the galaxy. It might have been cool if the TOS E had come across one of these old sister ships of the Valiant.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  2. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Except for windows and colouring I'm pretty much done with this. I am still thinking about a registration prefix and number.

    I think I've managed to achieve what I was trying for, but your mileage may vary.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  3. ashleytinger

    ashleytinger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think she came out great. Are you going with a horizontal or vertical deck structure?
     
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  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Considering how Jefferies would later orient the Botany Bay I’m inclined to go horizontal. It fits with his apparent mindset.
     
  5. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    How about a whip antenna loop in the nose, maybe suggesting where a saucer might go one day?

    You already have the beginning of a lower hull underneath. Is that a launch?
     
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t think we need to hint or suggest where a saucer might go someday. Two hundred years is a long time for design to evolve particularly when there could well be developments that are not foreseen that then change the direction of evolution.

    The bump on top of the main hull is not meant to be a bridge, but rather a housing for a retractable telescope.

    I like the look of the pod suspended under the main hull. I am not saying specifically it’s a landing craft but leaving it vague at this point. Later I might reconsider and make it look more like a landing vehicle.
     
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  7. Professor Moriarty

    Professor Moriarty Rice Admiral Premium Member

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    Love it! Can’t wait to see the textured version, especially with the bold pennant and ship registry on the side (which—fingers crossed—will be good ol traditional red and black)!
     
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  8. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I was originally thinking of making the pennant blue. (-:

    Oddly the line image posted above (with some text) probably wouldn’t be too different from what we could expect to see on one of Spock’s screens in WNMHGB. Or we might see a colour illustration or painting. We wouldn’t likely see a photo because that would involve building an actual miniature to be photographed which wouldn’t make much sense cost wise.

    I’ll play with it. Stay tuned.

    I’m also toying with an alternate design more like image I first photoshopped several years ago.
     
  9. trynda1701

    trynda1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Have you lengthened the main body a bit since the previous image?
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    ^^ No, the perspective makes it look longer.
     
  11. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I’m working on a quick cross section for an approximate deck layout so I can plot where the windows can be.

    ...oh, God, I can be obsessive. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  12. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Verisimilitude can be a harsh taskmaster. :lol:
     
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  13. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Here is a rough deck layout for the Valiant. If I use the scale of the average deck having an 8ft. ceiling (with some having a 10ft. ceiling) then I have a scale to determine this model's actual size.

    Length = 834.95 ft.
    Diameter = 406.96 ft.

    [​IMG]

    That sounds rather large, but lets put it in context. The main section is about the same thickness as the Enterprise primary hull, but the Valiant is cylindrical rather than saucer shaped. The Valiant's main hull is 118.26 ft. in diameter. Also nearly a fifth of that cylinder's length are the massive impulse thrusters capable of pushing the ship to relativistic speeds should the FTL stardrive be unavailable through failure or damage. The diameter of the rings is 406 plus feet, nearly the same as the 417 ft. diameter of the Enterprise's saucer, but for the Valiant that diameter is mostly empty space.

    Note, too, that while I have yet to rough out the speed capability of the Valiant we know it's a helluva lot less than the Enterprise. To that end we can assume the Valiant and her kind can reach nearby stars, perhaps at most within a 50-100 light year radius of Earth. But even so it will be a time consuming journey and the ship needs the resources to support even a smallish crew for an extended period of time.

    Yes, I know I'm giving this a lot more thought than is warranted for this exercise, but the indulgence can't hurt given I think I've accomplished my set goal. I now only need to finalize the model and render some images. The main image will be to insert a graphic of the design onto one of Spock's bridge monitor screens. The other images will be to show the ship as an actual vessel in flight.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  14. tesral

    tesral Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    1/650
     
  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I am trying to rough out how fast the Valiant could go. The idea is the Valiant is among the first major interstellar ships capable of going significant distances of about 50 or so light years from Earth.

    I seem to recall a novel that commented on how long it took Zefram Cochrane to reach Alpha Centauri. I think it was a matter of days which strikes me as maybe a bit too fast that early in the game. Of course, a published novel isn’t considered official or authoritative, but it shows others were also giving this some thought. Mind you advancements could come reasonably quickly which might allow new ships to be significantly faster than Cochrane’s prototypes.

    When Roddenberry first started laying out his ideas for Star Trek he expressed the ship’s speed capability in light years per hour. I was thinking of maybe doing the same thing here. If we say the Valiant can do .0057 light years per hour thats equivalent to 50c or 50 times the speed of light. That means Alpha Centauri at 4.3 light years from Earth would be 31.4 days travel. A star 20 light years away would be 4.8 months travel. And a star 50 light years away would 1 year’s travel. This could also support the idea of suspended animation (or more accurately induced hibernation) for voyages lasting more than a few weeks travel.

    If we double the Valiant’s speed to .0114 light years per hour or 100c then the travel times for the above referenced distances would be halved.

    I’m giving this some thought to have something to add to the graphic I’m creating to put on Spock’s bridge monitor.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  16. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    SS Conestoga took 9 years to reach Terra Nova at Warp 1, journey from 2069 to 2078. I don't think its distance was ever quite given, though Memory Alpha lists less than 20 light years. If Alpha Centauri is around 3 light years it must have at least taken a year or more for Cochrane, unless he had access to off world technology. Time slowing to the observer at relativistic speeds isn't supposed to be a thing for Warp Drive, since it is supposedly flying in its own "Bubble" of spacetime, or whatever. But TMP showed accidents do happen where time gets distorted. And a lot of those early missions, like those and Friendship One ran into problems.
     
  17. tesral

    tesral Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The warp factor to the power of three. WF^3 is in the TOS writer's guide. It was largely observed in the breach as actual distance from Earth or traveled is never started, Except the thing in "Where No Man has Gone Before" about the edge of the galaxy. Something that does not have an edge. If it did we are about 20,000 light years from it.
     
  18. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    WF^3 was never adhered to in the show itself. I think it may have been something written for the 2nd or 3rd edition of the series bible.

    As for the "edge" of the galaxy, why choose the furthest one? If you go vertically you can reach it in less than 500 light years! :biggrin:
     
  19. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    The oft referenced Warp Factor cubed formula from TMOST is not only never referenced in TOS, but it’s also totally useless in realistic terms with actual interstellar distances. It’s much too slow for TOS’ stories to make sense. If you used that formula even for early warp ships you’d still need them going Warp 4 to 6 to be of any use. Thats why I lean toward the idea that the actual formula (never actually stated onscreen) is something far faster and developed sometime during the early 23rd century, possibly tied to Daystrom’s duotronic computer systems and the use of dilithium. Before that ships were more “primitive” and distinctly slower even though warp capable. The result is two distinctly different warp scales, a precursor to what transwarp might supposedly have been to TOS era warp speeds.

    And note that even in “The Cage” they had the idea ships predating the Enterprise were significantly slower such that some sort of perceived “time barrier” had been broken.

    I suspect the Warp Factor cubed formula was conceived to make sense to a general television audience who didn’t really get the true immensity of interstellar distances. But even as a kid I soon realized said formula as stated wasn’t convincing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  20. tesral

    tesral Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You are getting speeds at the "Great age of ocean liners" range. US to Europe was about a week. England to India was a month or more. There was a reason Captains could marry people. Whole romances could take place between England and Australia. This is the pace of interstellar travel, not aircraft. Warp six by that scale is roughly a light year a day. Workable. ST Enterprise treated that scale as a thing.
     
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