Unseen TOS....

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Warped9, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    This endeavour could be seen as tangential to my current thread TAS made real. There I am trying to reconcile TAS designs in a 3D fashion as they could have appeared as live-action miniatures in TOS. To some extent I made an effort to adapt or correct the stylized designs into more credible three-dimensional forms that TOS could actually have constructed for filming. That said there are more than a few TAS designs that could have worked well enough if they had been conceived in 1966-69.

    What that thread largely overlooks is that those designs did not yet exist some years earlier while TOS was in production and therefore it was highly unlikely Matt Jefferies or anyone else on TOS’ production team would have come up with those specific designs drawn so effortlessly in animation. Jefferies and company would have been more constrained by real world limitations of resources, budget limitations and time constraints. Even if we accept the conceit of TOS having a modicum of extra time and money to realize more miniatures various episodes they would still have been constrained by actual physical resources.

    So: What was possible at the time with available resources and references?

    We can answer some of that given what was actually seen on TOS already as well as other sci-fi series and films during the era.

    We know it wasn’t a lack of imagination and creativity. The Klingon D7 battle cruiser (albeit built for TOS by AMT Corporation although designed by Matt Jefferies) clearly shows elaborate designs in physical form were very possible back in the day. Even so we can also accept that most featured miniatures were not going to be massive working objects like the 11ft. Enterprise filming miniature. At best they were going to be maybe 2-3 ft. miniatures that could conceivably have had a few working lights like the shuttlecraft Galileo miniature.

    This project also depends on a challenging conceit: effectively forgetting everything that has happened in terms of science fiction since the late 1960s simply because the creators of TOS, unlike us, would not have had access to anything that followed up to the present day. And so my references need to be restricted solely to what influences were available then.

    The other conceit is I will be using 3D modelling to envision what might or could have been done back in the day.

    It must be noted that not everything unseen on TOS actually needed to be seen. In “The Cage” and “Where No Man Has Gone Before” references were made to Earth ships that had disappeared and were lost decades to centuries earlier. Although it might have been nice to catch a glimpse of these ships as a schematic or photo on some monitor screen it wasn’t really essential to the story. In “The Cage” it can even be argued the S.S. COLUMBIA might not even have really existed, but was a fabrication of the Talosians to lure the passing Enterprise to Talos 4.

    Other films and television productions of the time often enough reused props and miniatures from earlier films and series. I believe the miniature of Klaatu’s ship from 1951’s The Day The Earth Stood Still showed up a couple of times in Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea and perhaps elsewhere. This practice wasn’t usually seen in TOS although the Horta costume seen in “The Devil In The Dark” was first seen in an Outer Limits episode, “Probe.” There might have been other instances as well that escape me at the moment so if anyone knows of other instances please feel welcome to mention them. Given the Enterprise sports a very prominent saucer in its design it’s not really inappropriate for other designs (besides Starfleet vessels) to be saucer based. So something inspired by or based on Klaatu’s ship or the C57D cruiser from Forbidden Planet is not far-fetched. Note a saucer like ship was seen in “The Alternative Factor” although it was only seen grounded.

    I have long liked the spaceship Cosmostrator from 1959’s First Spaceship On Venus—a striking and exotic design that would not have looked out of place on TOS. So rocketship like designs, suitably modified, could also have worked on occasion for TOS. Indeed Kara’s ship from “Spock’s Brain” is such a design. On close inspection it is actually quite a good modification of the classic sci-fi rocketship.

    Although it might not have been his intent Matt Jefferies’ design for the Botany Bay sleeper ship looks rather like a submarine model kit modified to look like a near future spaceship. On close inspection it’s obviously not a kit bash, but it does illustrate how inspiration from an unlikely source can work.

    Today there are essentially no limitations to what can be done in science fiction with the availability of computer modelling. Whatever can be imagined can be built and rendered directly to finished product on film with no cost in physical materials. The only real constraints are imagination and time. In the 1960s one had to be aware of what materials were available, what was possible in terms of construction, how quickly one could work within the allotted time and how much money was available.

    In my TAS made real thread we periodically speculate on how certain miniatures could have been realized on TOS. If TAS stories had actually been produced during TOS or in a speculative fourth season it’s safe to assume there would have been some serious changes made for the stories to work as live-action, and the designs seen in TAS would most likely have been quite different from what we’re presently familiar with.


    So to begin the speculation.

    “The Cage” – The first pilot was essentially a proof of concept to show Gene Roddenberry’s idea could be realized for television. So it’s easy to see not all the later familiar ideas were nailed down and fully fleshed out yet. Still, I already mentioned above that depicting the lost ship Columbia onscreen wasn’t really a necessity and would add nothing to the story. Certainly a miniature wasn’t required and even seeing a schematic of the ship on a display screen would have added nothing but perhaps a bit of prehistory worldbuilding. And given the pressures of time and going over budget it’s easy to see why no one likely gave much thought to what the Columbia could have looked like. Certainly an enhanced version of "The Cage" could shoehorn a schematic of the Columbia somewhere onto a screen, but I question whether it would be worth it given everything about the Columbia could simply have been a Talosian fabrication to lure the Enterprise.

    If there is anything that went unseen in “The Cage’ it’s additional views of the 11ft. Enterprise. We see it in one opening sequence and then nothing afterward. What else we see afterward are long shots of the smaller 3ft miniature which differed from the 11 footer in some distinct details, primarily in the contours of the saucer. And note that neither the 11 footer or the 3ft. miniature were lighted—they were both static miniatures at this point.

    Yes, it would have been nice to have seen the 11 footer lighted as it would be later for the second pilot and throughout the series, but it’s understandable at this point they simply couldn’t allow for additional time and money to light the model for a pilot episode that might not even sell as a series. And even if it did sell it wasn’t uncommon for a pilot episode to not ever be broadcast.

    Nonetheless that first opening sequence featuring the Enterprise banking toward us remains a dynamic and impressive shot introducing the ship to us. It could only have been made better if it had been lighted and if we could have gotten to see a few other views of the ship throughout the episode.

    Something else of note about the first pilot version of the 11 footer is that it was not a complete miniature besides not being lighted. It did not have any detail along the inboard sides of the nacelles, on the hangar deck doors or on the sides of the secondary hull near the navigational deflector. It raises the question of whether they would have added those finishing touches if given a little more time. Of course, we know the 11 footer was lighted for the second pilot "Where No Man Has Gone Before" althought the nacelles domes remained unlighted, the upper formation lights were not yet added and the above aforementioned details were still absent. And in WNMHGB we finally got to see other views of the 11 footer.

    To that end I think one of the first models I should build for this Unseen TOS thread is the pilot Enterprise. It’s also ironic that considering my fascination with TOS and having made numerous TOS based designs I haven’t yet gotten around to making my own 3D model of the Enterprise. Since we are exploring unseen Trek based on the idea of a little more time and money available I think at least I could add lights to "The Cage" version of the ship. To make it more complete I could add a few details from the WNMHGB and series versions. In the least I think I should light the windows even if I leave the rest as is.


    "Where No Man Has Gone Before" - As stated above the 11 footer was revised with some detail changes and, more significantly, lights were added. The only thing really left unseen was the lost ship Valiant. However, as is the case with the unseen Columbia in "The Cage" the appearance of the Valiant really isn't necessary to the story although it might have been interesting to have seen a glimpse of the ship as a schematic or illustration on one of Spock's monitor screens.

    Still, unlike the Columbia, over the years there has been more interest in what the Valiant could have looked like. Many fans (myself included) have speculated with drawings and models on what the Valiant could have looked like based on what skant information is given in the episode. We know it predates the Enterprise by around two hundred years and the Enterprise crew is surprised to learn the ship had somehow managed to make it to the edge of the galaxy, the inference being a ship that long ago had no business being that far out and it is never explained how the Valiant got so far into the galaxy.

    In Star Trek's early days much of the science, technology and terminology was still evolving. In "The Cage" it's implied ships like the Enterprise are significantly faster than ships of only twenty years prior, but it isn't clarified whether they mean ships specifically of the Enterprise's class or ships in general of that era. This does tie-in loosely with what we would learn later in the series. In "Balance Of Terror" it's implied ships of a century prior to the storiy's events were "primitive" compared to the Enterprise. It's reasonable to assume technological advancement over a century could be significant, but using the word "primitive" connotates a truly drastic difference between the old and the new. Nonetheless later episodes references would be made to "starships" of a hundred years prior (Archon and Horizon) and fifty years prior (another Valiant). We would also learn Zefram Cochrane developed (invented?) the space warp more than 150 years before the events in the episode "Metamorphosis." The final bit of backstory we have is learning Earth was using sleeper ships in the late 20th to early 21st centuries.

    Another point to consider is that when TOS was produced there was a lot less general understanding of how big interstellar space is and what is required to travel those distances. The distinction between impulse and warp back in the day was not as clear as it is now. We should also clarify what a "starship" actually means. A starship is a craft meant to travel interstellar distances. Yet faster-tha-light propulsion is not a requirement unless you want to reach your destination within the crew's normal life span as well as those left back home waiting for your return or at least to get a message from you. But to tell the stories told in Star Trek starships pretty much have to be FTL driven unless specified otherwise.

    So older ships referenced dating 20 ("The Cage" and "The Ultimate Computer") to 50 ("A Taste Of Armageddon") to 100 ("Balance Of Terror," "Return Of The Archons" and "A Piece Of The Action") to 200 ("Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Metamorphosis") years prior may be significantly less advanced and significantly slower than the Enterprise they nonetheless possess some form of early FTL drive. The only non-warp ship we will see dating more than two centuries prior is the sleeper ship Botany Bay ("Space Seed"). It is the only visual clue we get in TOS regarding what Earth ships looked like centuries before the Enterprise.

    Still, despite my rambling, none of that was yet established when WNMHGB was produced. To that end we can still deduce a few things from the references regarding the Valiant.
    - 200 years earlier Earth was sending ships into space with more than a handful of crewmen. This implies a vessel of decent size to sustain that crew for an extended period of time.
    - The Valiant's recoder marker identifies (perhaps grandiosely) the ship as a Galactic Survey Cruiser, which imples a FTL ship meant to explore interstellar space and return to port. The reference to "the old impulse engines" suggests that while it was an interstellar vessel the Valiant was nonetheless quite primitive compared to more modern ships and expected to remain relatively close to home--hence the surprise to find the ship had somehow made it to the edge of the galaxy.

    The challenge is trying to envision what the old Valiant could have looked like while trying not to be too influenced by what we know would come later in the series and subsequent productions. Assuming they ever did try to visualize the Valiant it's most likely it would have appeared only as a schematic or illustration on a monitor screen rather than as a physical miniature. Nonetheless in exploring the possibility we can render it here as a 3D model which could be converted to a schematic or illustration or photo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
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  2. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Looking back where I had explored this previously.

    Many years ago this was a concept for the Valiant I worked up in Photoshop.

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    I essentially took the hull of the spaceship Luna from the 1950 film Destination: Moon and started playing with it. At the time I didn't think too much about it beyond that. My basic idea was the Valiant was initially a fast relativistic ship that was fitted with an early form of space warp drive. I like the name used in the Trek novel Federation where it's referred to as a superimpeller. My thinking was that in the early years of interstellar starflight different configurations were experimented with to find an optimal design rather than assuming two nacelles were always there from the beginning and throughout until the present.

    My revised version of the Valiant was worked up as a 3D model sometime later. Although the ringship idea is not something we as fans saw until the ringship Enterprise glimpsed in TMP it is an idea Matt Jefferies explored while working his way toward a final design for the Enterprise. So it’s not inconceivable MJ could reuse the ringship concept for an older Earth ship.
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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  3. Santaman

    Santaman Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nice! And yes, I remember you working on the Valiant.
    I like the shape of it. :mallory:
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks! Looking at it now it strikes me as a mixture of old school sci-fi rocketship and real world heavy rocket booster tweaked into something futuristic. It looks retro compared to the Enterprise, but it doesn’t really look retro futurism.
     
  5. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    A few thoughts.

    Looking back on my previous attempts to depict the Valiant I am struck that I don't feel I was far off the mark. I can see where I might tweak a few things differently. But looking at this now is not how the creative team working on WNMHGB would have seen it. We are aware of all the prehistorical backstory that will unfold as the series progresses over the next few years, but that would have been a complete blank slate to the original creative team.

    But lets try to get into that mindset back then.

    TOS did not have a clearly defined time period throughout its run. There were numerous references that pegged the show was set 200-900 years in the future. But during the first season the 200 year figure was the most referenced. That 200 year reference also pops up in WNMHGB, but it doesn't clarify the story is set 200 years from the 1960s. It says the events of the story occur 200 years after the Valiant's disappearance. So the question is: when was the Valiant's disappearance supposed to have happened?

    If we accept the Valiant was some form of early interstellar spacecraft we know no such vehicles existed in the 1960s. And it's safe to assume the creative team understood no such vehicle would exist for at least the next few decades given the then rather rudimentary state of rocketry and getting men into space.

    But the 1960s was also an exciting time in regard to an interest in space travel. President Kennedy had earlier set the United States on a course of landing on the Moon by the end of the decade. Along with budding space travel there was rapid techological change throughout society. This all fed into a general underlying sense of optimism despite the turmoil that was also happening at the time. People were not only generally optimistic that man could reach the Moon, but that humanity would build upon that feat to reach other planets and even go for the stars. They had no idea of the forthcoming events, and ensuing cynicism, of the early to mid 1970s that would undermine their optimism and basically derail NASA's plans to go beyond the Moon.

    The optimism of the 1960s allowed people to believe the sky was the limit and technological problems simply required enough time and money to be solved (essentially true, but ignoring political realities). To many the idea of interstellar travel might have seemed like a credible prospect only decades in the future rather than centuries. It's possible they might have thought interstellar travel feasible by the late 20th to early 21st century given the rate technology appeared to be advancing and that 30-50 years looked like a long time away. If we allow ourselves to be a bit more cynical then it puts the existence of the Valiant in the early part of the 21st century. Lets call it 50 years after the 1960s and thus WNMHGB happening 200 years later, setting TOS in the early 23rd century.

    The Enterprise was an expression of how Matt Jefferies thought space travel might look like within the next few of centuries. But what might he think space travel could look like within the next fifty years from 1965? We don't really know about what he thought in 1965, but in 1967 we got a clue as to what he thought it might look like within the next 30 years when he designed the Botany Bay for the episode "Space Seed" (of course, Jefferies did not write the story, but visualized what the story called for).

    Jefferies apparently figured FTL travel wasn't happening anytime soon. Given the then current state of space travel he reasoned early interplanetary space flight (to reach the outer planets) would be in the form of (relatively) slow moving vehicles wherein the crews would be put into suspended animation until they reached their destination. His reasoning is bolstered by the fact many people thought the same thing and we see that same notion in the 1968 feature film 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is a decent example of what is known as hard science fiction. We also saw the idea in the feature Planet Of The Apes also released in 1968, although in that film they were depicting interstellar travel.

    At first glance the Botany Bay looks like a modified submarine, but closer inspection reveals it is a rather spare and utilitarion design. It's basically a central boom with a habitable compartment up front and propulsion section aft. Along the middle of the boom were segmented detachable cargo containers, with some containers apparently missing on the onscreen version. Jefferies was projecting that interplanetary spacecraft within the next few decades would not be drastically unfamiliar to what was assumed to be feasible. The design had two notable conceits, one of them being understandable due to the limits of 1960's television production in that the Botany Bay apparently possessed artificial gravity. The second conceit is the drive section looks to be notably small and with no apparent fuel tanks, unless we're to assume said fuel tanks had long ago been jettisoned. Or Jefferies was speculating that drive systems would advance drastically within the next few decades.

    Nonetheless if we project forward several decades from the Botany Bay to what Jefferies might have envisioned as early interstellar spacecraft it's not unreasonable to think he would have fashioned something still somewhat utlitarian and rudimentary looking. And note that nothing in WNMHGB tells us whether the Valiant was a sleeper ship or not even with early FTL capability and despite being classed as a "galactic survey cruiser." But one could argue fairly that that classification supports the idea of the ship having FTL capability, but not being a sleeper ship. It's open for debate.

    Based on its design the Botany Bay was evidently an interplanetary bulk cargo transport primarily. That it was used as a crude interstellar transport for several dozen people argues it was done out of urgent necessity. The Valiant, being classed as a galactic survey cruiser, would likely have a different configuration with less to zero necessity to have detachable cargo containers. Still an early interstellar craft with FTL capability might most likely be basically cylindrical in form. It might evoke an aircraft fuselage, a submarine hull or, to some extent, a rocket booster, but suitably tweaked to look futuristic relative to what people were familiar with at the time. It's not unrealistic to consider taking the classic 1950's sci-fi rocketship form--seen on any number of SF novel or magazine covers or Chesley Bonestell paintings--and modify it to look more substantial and more real world.

    The next issue regards the FTL stardrive components. Would they be cylindrical like they are on the Enterprise two to three centuries later or might it look distinctly different? To visually emphasize the idea of significant advancement I'm inclined to think early FTL drives would look less elegant than what would evolve centuries later. Just looking at the design, without exposition, should reaffirm more "primitive" technology. And Jefferies already had a couple of ideas while working toward a final design for the Enterprise that he rejected for not looking advanced enough: rings and spheres. So Jefferies already had a couple of basic starting points for designing an early interstellar spacecraft. The early craft could look more rudimentary and also distinctly different from the far future Enterprise.

    The above thoughts were my general lines of thought when I first tackled the idea of what the Valiant could look like. And candidly, even upon reconsideration, I think my reasoning is still sound. To that end I will take another pass at a conjectural Valiant design to see if I find myself drawn to similar results as my earlier attempts.

    Gotta start sketching...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  6. TrekMD

    TrekMD Commander Red Shirt

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    Very nice!
     
  7. Professor Moriarty

    Professor Moriarty Dice Admiral Premium Member

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    Oh daaaaaang! I love this idea of imagining what we didn’t see, but with the original 1960s aesthetic. I grok the evolution from the Botany Bay to the ringship Enterprise to the Valiant—very nicely done.

    I can’t wait to see what we get to un-unsee next!
     
  8. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    At some point I will sit down and try listing things it would have been nice to see. The real challenge will be trying to put myself in the mindset of the 1960s where there would have been no knowledge whatsoever of what was to come in later series and films.

    For someone to say ENT or TNG (or whatever) established or showed us such and such is totally irrelevant because those productions simply wouldn’t exist for decades to come. One can even argue that what TOS shows us in Season 3 has little to no bearing on what was unseen in the previous seasons because they had no foreknowledge of those forthcoming stories and what they would establish. Ditto with TAS.

    It comes down to relying on what sources and knowledge was available at the time an episode was made.

    I’m anticipating some interesting discussion and debate to help guide and hone my ideas.


    It must also be noted that I and others have tackled some of these things before to varying extent.

    We have never seen what lies below the shuttlecraft flight deck, but I have modelled what I thought the shuttlecraft maintenance deck could look like. Candidly I don't think I want or need to revisit this. Note the shuttlecraft NCC-1701/3 shown here was my attempt to make a TOS version of the long range scoutship seen in TAS' The Slaver Weapon." The large darker grey recess in the floor is where the turntable/elevator platform lowers down from the flight deck above. The steps on either side of the platform lead further aftward to the tail end of the ship under the flight deck where a storage and machine shop might reside. The windows glimpsed on either side of the service deck line up with windows seen on the exterior of the ship as placed on the 11ft. filming miniature. There is sufficient space to berth all four shuttlecraft below to clear the flight deck for any other incoming craft.
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    Another starship Valiant is referenced in "A Taste Of Armageddon" that predates the Enterprise by about fifty years and I have envisioned one in 3D based upon one of Matt Jefferies conceptual sketches as he approached his final design for the Enterprise. This is something I might revisit or at least perhaps tweak. I intended this design to be the kind of ship Robert April and Christopher Pike cut their teeth on. Indeed Kirk, Spock, Scotty and McCoy might also have served some time on some of these older ships.
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    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  9. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    I know the whole idea is to forget that the newer series exist, but that last ship looks like it could be descended from the NX.
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    It’s easy for me to ignore ENT. And as I stated above the last ship posted is based off one of Matt Jefferies’ concept sketches from 1964.

    This whole exercise is, candidly, an endeavour of fantasy in trying to visualize what else we could have seen if circumstances had allowed for it. A modern day prequel does not indulge that fantasy primarily because it is based on contemporary perceptions and expectations. It retcons what a contemporary viewer expects to see.

    But growing up with TOS and for so very long it was Star Trek, the only series, we hungered to see more of that universe as they would have envisioned it.

    When I first saw the two-part episode “The Menagerie” I thought I was seeing part of an earlier series I had somehow missed. I soon learned the reality of the earlier footage, but the interest to see more had been triggered. Even after all these years it’s still fascinating to contemplate what else we could have seen if TOS’ creators had had the opportunity.

    And contemporary productions don’t satisfy that interest. It is partly why I was so disappointed with TOS-R. It didn’t give me more of what the original creators might have shown us, but rather a mediocre retconned effort to make TOS look more like contemporary productions. Devoted fans have shown us what a truly respectful enhanced TOS could look like, but thats not the approach CBS took. To that end I simply choose to completely ignore TOS-R. I have seen a number of TOS-R episodes and I am largely left unimpressed and unmoved—what a wasted effort. As such I never watch the revised versions. My imagination and mind’s eye allows me to fill in the blanks much more satisfyingly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  11. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Fans have been trying to envision unseen Trek since at least the early ‘70s. In the beginning we drew new designs and plans. We kitbashed and made models. There were “official” publications that really juiced our fascination such as The Making Of Star Trek, Star Trek Booklet Of General Plans and the Star Fleet Technical Manual. Fans ran with it from there.

    One of the most interesting sites is Masao’s Starfleet Museum. I particularly like his effort to flesh out the ships of the Earth/Romulan War. It is so counter to what would later be seen in ENT. Masao worked from the ideas suggested in the backstory of “Balance Of Terror” and created an entire different era set a century before the events of TOS. There are quite a few designs on Masao’s site I find truly inspired.
     
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  12. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Okay, this is off the top of my head. More ideas might come to me later or someone else might think of something I've missed.

    "Where No Man Has Gone Before" - I've already mentioned the Valiant, but there is something else in this episode that I find intriguing: the phaser rifle. The phaser rifle is not in any way unseen, but it teases us in terms of what comes later. The phaser rifle in WNMHGB is aesthetically more consistent with the laser/phaser pistols used in the first two pilots. But when the series goes into production we get the more futuristic looking Phaser I and Phaser II hand phasers. Which inevitably begs the question: what would a more current updated phaser rifle have looked like if we had gotten to see one?

    I know this has been addressed by some fans over the years, but maybe it's worth revisiting.

    “The Corbomite Maneuver” – Balok's ship the Fesarius is impressive even if we don't get a really good look at it. Ditto with his small scout craft. But maybe it might have been nice to have seen something of a schematic of Balok's ship on one of Spock's monitor screens.

    “Mudd’s Women” – I'm sure he stole it, but what did Harry Mudd's Class-J cargo ship look like?

    “Charlie X” – Charlie blew up the survey ship Antares before we got a look at it. Bummer. And does the Thasian ship really have to be just a blob of light? Hmm. maybe.

    “Balance Of Terror” – We all want to know what ships of the Earth/Romulan War were like. And we can take a closer look at the Romulan Bird of Prey.

    “The Conscience Of The King” – The Astral Queen transport is waiting.

    “The Galileo Seven” – We finally see the ship's hangar deck, but where does the truntable/elevator go? Okay, I have pretty much addressed this (see upthread) although there are a few things I could add.

    “Court Martial” – Shouldn't the Enterprise be docked while it's undergoing repair at Starbase 10? What might that look like?

    “Arena” – The mysterious Gorn ship.

    “The Return Of The Archons” – The century old lost starship Archon. Like the Columbia in “The Cage” and the Valiant in WNMHGB it isn’t really necessary to the story to know what the Archon looks like, but we’re curious.

    “A Taste Of Armageddon” – The second lost starship Valiant (not the same one mentioned in WNMHGB).

    “Errand Of Mercy” – A lesser class Klingon ship attacking the Enterprise. The Klingon D7 hasn’t been envisioned yet so what might this look like?

    “Metamorphosis” – Zefram Cochrane’s space warp prototype.

    "The Doomsday Machine" - Is the Constellation really supposed to be identical to the Enterprise or could that odd registry number mean we should be seeing a variation?

    “Friday’s Child” – Our first time seeing a Klingon D7 battle cruiser or could this be a different design?

    “The Trouble With Tribbles” – Cyrano Jones’ scout ship.

    “Bread And Circuses” – The wrecked survey ship Beagle. This perhaps could be a reuse of the design used for the Antares.

    “Journey To Babel” – The mysterious Orion marauder.

    “A Piece Of The Action” – The old starship Horizon.

    “By Any Other Name” – The Kelvan ship.

    “The Ultimate Computer” – More than any other episode this makes us wonder what other Federation starship designs could be in service. Also the Woden shouldn't be a reused Botany Bay. And does the station have to be a reuse of station K7 from “The Trouble With Tribbles?”

    “Spock’s Brain” – A closer look at Kara’s ship.

    “The Tholian Web” – A closer look at the Tholian webspinner. And could the Defiant have been a different class of starship?

    “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” – Does Bele's ship have to be invisible? And could Lokai have stolen a different kind of Starfleet shuttlecraft?

    “The Way To Eden” – Revisiting the space cruiser Aurora because a reused Tholian ship is silly.


    There are a few other things that could have been rethought if allowed, but they’re things beyond my ability. Matte paintings can be effective, but reusing them for two totally different things is disappointing. The Scalosian city in “Wink Of An Eye” shouldn’t be a ruse of the Eminiar city seen in “A Taste Of Armageddon.” And Flint’s palatial home in “Requiem For Methuselh” shouldn’t have been a reuse of the Rigel 7 fortress seen in “The Cage.” Note that TOS-R did address those issues.

    It might also have been nice to have seen an establishing shot of the Platonian community from “Plato’s Stepchildren” with a matte painting evoking ancient Grecian architecture. Also the cloud city of Stratos from “The Cloud Minders” needed to be more elaborate.


    In my other thread TAS made real I’m exploring what elements of TAS could have been like if the stories had been live-action. But it largely (with exception) sidesteps the issue that if TAS stories had actually been part of a fourth TOS season for 1969-70 then many if not all of the story elements would have been drastically different—no more just drawing whatever you can imagine. Pretty much all the stories would have had to be near completely re-imagined and extensively rewritten, and some of them might have been impossible. It could have called for an extensive use of new matte paintings. Some on-location shooting could have been required. Pretty much all the exotic aliens would have had to be reconceived. And all the interesting hardware would most likely have looked quite different given they would now have to be built rather than just drawn, and they would have been designed by Matt Jefferies rather than Filmation illustrators.

    This might be an avenue worth exploring either here or in the other thread. To a limited extent I already have in re-imagining the old starship Bonaventure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
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  13. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    I have never heard of the Cosmostrator until this thread - it reminds me of what a movie-version of the Galaga ship should look like.
     
  14. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    It’s a funky looking design that takes the classic sci-fi rocketship and makes it look exotic. If you watch the film First Spaceship To Venus you’ll see some interesting parallels with Star Trek and the Enterprise.
     
  15. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    Now you can. Click on the ship images here (link).

    Yes, it's supposed to be. It's identified as a "star ship" in Spinrad's 1st story outline, and in the April 5, 1967 1st draft of "The Planet Eater" teleplay it's even more explicitly so:

    EXT. - THE CONSTELLATION CLOSE SHOT

    We see the Constellation, (re-done model of the Enterprise) sitting dead in space, several large, neat holes punched in its hull, obviously a derelict.​

    In fact, when Gerrold moved the story to a planet surface it was Justman who suggested they go to the expense of a space station model and effects shots because they would have something for future episodes. So just assume it's a stock space station design.
     
  16. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    ^^ If I’m remembering correctly Shaw once did an extensive study of the AMT Enterprise kit and subsequently modified the kit to more closely resemble the 11 footer Enterprise miniature. On close inspection there are still some telling differences, but if this had been done on TOS as well it would have been somewhat more convincing passing off an AMT kit as another starship identical to the Enterprise as seen from a distance, particularly on a smallish CRT television.

    Even back in the day it was painfully obvious the Constellation was a plastic model kit. If it could have been allowed for a bit more effort would have been appreciated.

    Even so intent and final result can often diverge. We know the command tunics were actually green, but generations of watching the episodes has resulted in the command tunics being universally accepted as gold. We know the Constellation was supposed to be identical to the Enterprise, but from the beginning viewers questioned this and explored different explanations because the Constellation miniature was noticeably different in contours and sported an oddly different registry.
     
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  17. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    I think most viewers never noticed and still don't notice that the Constellation has some differences from the Enterprise. A certain stripe of hardcore fans do. But to the casual viewer such differences are probably less obvious than the disappearing/reappearing nacelle aft globes and alternating lit up and red nacelle caps and the differing size of the sensor dish seen week in week out.
     
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  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 3, 2003
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    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    We’re fans. Of course, a lot of us notice these things. :lol:
     
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  19. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Commodore Commodore

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    Dec 26, 2002
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    Houston, we have a problem...
    ^ Yep - and I noticed it when it first aired - and I was about 3 years old... :shrug:
     
  20. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mar 22, 2010
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    publiusr
    Doomsday Machine should be Narada with the ice cream cone maw down deep. Shadowcrab style (Bab 5)

    Balok’s craft as described seems like one of the big Space 1999 ships.

    The Eyemorg ship from Spock’s Brain should be the Declaration type ring ship. Room only for the occupant only. Looks like an ion ship anyway. Me? I’d have an Orion Battleship for Valiant, or for Khan’s ride.

    Johndale Solum’s Medusa was a pulse design, not unlike Sisko’s sailing vessel. Have the Kelvin event first, then WNMHGB later using Kelvin mods. Enterprise is the fastest now, and the same event that blew Sisko’s ship hit the sub-light Medusa...a simple model build...a plain kite.

    Now, Lord Other had a small runabout type craft I like as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021