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Transition and explanation of SNW into TOS technology

Part of the reason Star Trek became such a cultural staple is because it was largely able to withstand scrutiny, rewarding those who paid attention to the intricate details. This only increased the entertainment value and desire for rewatching.

Roddenberry's memo-stated rule was "believability". This required consistency, and Star Trek provided more of it than most any other science fiction setting for decades . . . even as folks like Arthur C. Clarke threw in the towel on continuity within his 2001 novel series.

(Cue the "James R. Kirk har-dee-har" folks.)
Are you joking? We've been picking Trek apart since the Sixties. One guy, Phil Farrand, made quite a career out of it.

Believability and consistency aren't the same thing in fiction. Gene's rule was never about the minutiae.

Here's what Gene actually said on the topic

CAN YOU FIND THE MAJOR STAR TREK FORMAT ERROR IN THE FOLLOWING "TEASER" FROM A STORY OUTLINE?
The scene is the Bridge of the U.S.S. (United States Spaceship) Enterprise. Captain Kirk is at his command
position, his lovely but highly efficient female Yeoman
at his side. Suddenly and without provocation, our Starship is attacked by an alien space vessel. We try
to warn the alien vessel off, but it igneres us and
begins loosening bolts of photon energy-plasma at us.
The alien vessel's attack begins to weaken our deflectors.
Mister Spock reports to Captain Kirk that the next
enemy bolt will probably break through and destroy the
Enterprise. At this moment we look up to see that final
energy-plasma bolt heading for us. There may be only
four or five seconds of life left. Kirk puts his arms
about his lovely Yeoman, comforting and embracing her
as they wait for what seems certain death. FADE OUT.
(END TEASER)
PLEASE CHECK ONE:
( ) Inaccurate terminology. The Enterprise is more
correctly an international vessel, the United Spaceship Enterprise.
( ) Scientifically incorrect. Energy-plasma bolts
could not be photon in nature.
( ) Unbelievable. The Captain would not hug pretty
Yeoman on the Bridge of his vessel.
( ) Concept weak. This whole story opening reeks
too much of "space pirate" or similar bad science
fiction.
2.
NO, WE'RE NOT JOKING. THE PRECEDING PAGE WAS A VERY REAL AND
IMPORTANT TEST OF YOUR APPROACH TO SCIENCE FICTION. HERE'S WHY.
( ) Inaccurate terminology. Wrong, if you checked
this one. Sure, the term "United States Space- ship" was incorrect, but it could have been
fixed with a pencil slash. Although we do
want directors, writer, actors and others to
use proper terminology, this error was certainly far from being the major STAR TREK
format error.
( ) Scientifically inaccurate. Wrong again; beware if you checked this one. Although we do want
to be scientifically accurate, we've found that
selection of this item usually indicates a
preoccupation with science and gadgetry over
people and story.
() Concept weak. Wrong again. It is, in fact,
much like the opening of one of our best episodes of last year. "Aliens", "enemy vessels", "sudden
attack and such things can range from "Buck Rogers" to classical literature, all depending
on how it is handled (witness H. G. Wells' novels,
Forrester's sea stories, and so on.)
UNDERSTANDING THE RIGHT ANSWER TO THIS IS BASIC TO UNDERSTANDING
THE STAR TREK FORMAT. THIS WAS THE CORRECT ANSWER:
(x) Unbelievable. Why the correct answer? Simply

because we've learned during a full season of
making visual science fiction that believability
of characters, their actions and reactions, is
our greatest need and is the most important angle

factor. Let's explore that briefly on the next
page.
NOW, TRY AGAIN. SAME BASIC STORY SITUATION, BUT AGAINST ANOTHER BACKGROUND.
The time is today. We're in Viet Nam waters
aboard the navy cruiser U.S.S. Detroit.
Suddenly an enemy gunboat heads for us, our
guns are unable to stop it, and we realize
it's. a suicide attack with an atomic warhead.
Total destruction of our vessel and of all
aboard appears probable. Would Captain E.
L. Henderson, presently commanding the U.S.S.
Detroit, turn and hug a comely female WAVE
who happened to be on the ship's bridge.
As simple as that. This is our standard test that has
led to STAR TREK believability. (It also suggests much
of what has been wrong in filmed sf of the past.) No, Captain Henderson wouldn't! Not if he's the kind of
Captain we hope is commanding any naval vessel of ours.
Nor would our Captain Kirk hug a female crewman in a
moment of danger, not if he's to remain believable. (Some might prefer Henderson were somewhere making
love rather than shelling Asiatic ports, but that's
a whole different story for a whole different network.
Probably BBC.)
AND SO, IN EVERY SCENE OF OUR STAR TREK STORY...
.. translate it into a real life situation. Or,
sometimes as useful, try it in your mind as a scene
in GUNSMOKE, NAKED CITY, or some similar show.
Would you believe the people and the scene if it
happened there?
IF YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE WHO ANSWERS: "THE CHARACTER
ACTS THAT WAY BECAUSE IT'S SCIENCE FICTION", DON'T
CALL US, WE'LL CALL YOU.
 
I'm sure later writing staff post TOS must've took care of some of those issues.
Not really. Some fans did and created some great wallpaper for the fans to buy and enjoy with episode guides, and technical manuals and chronologies.

But, even Voyager couldn't be consistent with TNG on warp speeds, traveling across the galaxies, or the nature of the Borg.

There's a reason the acronym YATI exists.
 
So when was Khan Noonien Singh supposed to be born?
- Mid 20th Century?
- Early 21st Century?

When was the Eugenics War supposed to happen?
- 1990's
- Some Time in the 21st Century?

When was WW3 supposed to start?
- 2026
- 2050's?

Critical events happened during very different times.
That means the TimeLine has changed, no matter what the folks that run the series state.
Their actions are quite different.


To you, that's the only stance that matters.

I'm basing it on what I see and what they show on screen.
TimeLines have clearly changed.

If you want to say that the current TimeLine is "Prime", that's fine.
We can focus on the SNW TimeLine as "Prime".
I'm all cool with that.

But don't try to deny the existence of the events that was well established by previous Trek Canon.
Critical Events in Human History were supposed to take place in different times.
People look different, technology looked different.
That's okay & fine IMO.

Just add another TimeLine, it doesn't hurt anybody.
At that point, you're not trying to tell the audience that they're stupid with a bald face lie and expect them to believe them.
We're far smarter than that and you're insulting our intelligence at this point.

Its the same Universe. Same frequency, same physical location. The TIMELINE is not the Universe. Its Prime Universe, completely rewritten timeline. Some broad strokes events are similar. Small detail events are different.
 
But there's always been changes in the timeline. By your logic, every single time there has ever been a single instance of time travel, we've switched to a different timeline. Hey! Maybe the removal of George and Gracie from the timeline in the 80s is what delayed the Eugenics War! Or maybe it was Kirk talking to that cop in City on the edge of Forever? Yes, the timeline will have been changed countless times, but Star Trek's rules of time travel, with its literal Timecops, seems to be that the one timeline bends and moves, but stays "close enough" to whatever it's "supposed to be".

It's the only line that officially matters.

Because after 60 years, there's gonna be some contradictions. Again, I'll ask.... When was World War 3? What's Kirk's middle initial? Sometimes shit happens and we have to accept it's a fictional TV show and not a historical record.

Good for you. It's not. But good for you.

You treat them however YOU want. You do you. But the official position is that they're the same characters.

Seems to be that's exactly what they're doing.
Yes. Thats exactly what happens. That is what the butterfly effect is. It can be major, or minor, but every change is a rewriting of the timeline to include the new events and the effects of those events on the timeline. This doesn't create a New Universe, but it changes the events on the fabric of the existing one. Thats why when major changes happen, the entire future is different, but when it is corrected, it is mostly the same, with minor differences, even if its something as minor as people seeing a blip of the Enterprise on their radar in the past, or a person disappearing, changing the lives of everyone that knew them and every butterfly extending from that, everyone that notices their absense. Even if it is a bum that didn't matter.
 
Its the same Universe. Same frequency, same physical location. The TIMELINE is not the Universe. Its Prime Universe, completely rewritten timeline. Some broad strokes events are similar. Small detail events are different.
If that's how you see it, I'm sure that'll work for you.


I see it as a TimeLine that has branched off due to Temporal War Shenanigans.

It's derived off the TOS / TNG era Prime Timeline, but it's not the same as the original.

And that's fine if it isn't the same, but let's call it what it is.

A derivative / modified timeline and be ok to call it "Prime Timeline", even if it's a "Neo-Prime Timeline" technically.
 
If that's how you see it, I'm sure that'll work for you.


I see it as a TimeLine that has branched off due to Temporal War Shenanigans.

It's derived off the TOS / TNG era Prime Timeline, but it's not the same as the original.

And that's fine if it isn't the same, but let's call it what it is.

A derivative / modified timeline and be ok to call it "Prime Timeline", even if it's a "Neo-Prime Timeline" technically.
I'm agreeing with you. I just don't think it creates a separate place. I'm just calling out the differences between Universes and Timelines which seems to be the biggest root of these issues and arguments. The TOS/TNG era Prime Timeline has constantly been modified and rewritten, and the current one is a derivative of that previously existing universe, and is not the same as the original. The Temporal War rewrote this timeline over and over again, until now there are Romulans in the early 21st century, Khan's birth and war dates have been changed, and 23rd century aesthetics, technology and even some birth genetics are completely different. We are probably 95% in agreement lol.
 
I'm agreeing with you. I just don't think it creates a separate place. I'm just calling out the differences between Universes and Timelines which seems to be the biggest root of these issues and arguments. The TOS/TNG era Prime Timeline has constantly been modified and rewritten, and the current one is a derivative of that previously existing universe, and is not the same as the original. The Temporal War rewrote this timeline over and over again, until now there are Romulans in the early 21st century, Khan's birth and war dates have been changed, and 23rd century aesthetics, technology and even some birth genetics are completely different. We are probably 95% in agreement lol.
Remember in TNG episode "Parallel's", all options that can happen, will have happened some-where.

It might be a minor thing, but it does occur.

Remember, somebody picked Purple to be the color of the Enterprise-D's hull instead of Grey.
That splintered off into it's own Timeline where the Enterprise-D didn't crash and get replaced by the Enterprise-E.

I'm sure there are a infinite amount of different TimeLines across the Universes thanks to Time-Travel & Quantum Mechanics.

What we're watching is just one of the newer variants, which is fine.
 
Remember in TNG episode "Parallel's", all options that can happen, will have happened some-where.

It might be a minor thing, but it does occur.

Remember, somebody picked Purple to be the color of the Enterprise-D's hull instead of Grey.
That splintered off into it's own Timeline where the Enterprise-D didn't crash and get replaced by the Enterprise-E.

I'm sure there are a infinite amount of different TimeLines across the Universes thanks to Time-Travel & Quantum Mechanics.

What we're watching is just one of the newer variants, which is fine.
Parallels showed lots of alternate universes, just like the Mirror Universe, and most likely Kelvin, that existed in tandem, operating at different frequencies. Time travel just effects the one universe that it is happening in. They are physically separate places, and choices don't create infinitely existing physical locations, but time travel is constantly changing the fabric of whatever universe it is happening in, IMO. But we are definitely more on the "same side" of this argument, and are just nitpicking semantics at this point. I have no idea what you are referring to about the hull color or Generations happening differently, I haven't encountered that argument yet lol. We are definitely watching a new variation/iteration of the timeline. I just think it replaced what came before, the way time travel always has done in Trek, whereas you think it splintered off and we are watching a fork. With the splintering timeline theory, then there is still a world where the Nazi's won, where the Whale Probe crushed Earth, and where the Borg destroyed the 21st century, where my version would imply that these events were undone, and the universe saved. I prefer (and think it more consistent) to go with my interpretation, but either of our interpretations are more valid than "its all the same universe the whole time with no changes" when that clearly is not the case lol.
 
Would watching the series not be a far simpler alternative?
I don't own the TOS Blu-Rays yet.

Short of that, I have no way to access TOS.

I have no idea what you are referring to about the hull color or Generations happening differently, I haven't encountered that argument yet lol.
Did you not watch ST:LD.S5.E07 - "Fully Dilated"?
They encountered "Data's Head", but Purple from a Parallel Universe.
That also has a Enterprise-D that is Purple.

Apparently in that Timeline/Parallel Universe, the default/popular color instead of Gray/White was "Purple" for the Hull Color.
That also applied to Data's Skin Color of choice.
 
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I don't own the TOS Blu-Rays yet.

Short of that, I have no way to access TOS.
Seems to me you've watched Strange New Worlds and other newer series. This presumably means you have access to streaming.

You understand that it's extraordinarily hard to take serious somebody who claims to be an expert on Star Trek, yet has never seen The Original Series.

Laughable even.
 
Seems to me you've watched Strange New Worlds and other newer series. This presumably means you have access to streaming.

You understand that it's extraordinarily hard to take serious somebody who claims to be an expert on Star Trek, yet has never seen The Original Series.

Laughable even.

Libraries are great too.

But, I think it comes down to preferences. This is why TOS is unconnected to any other Trek for me, mostly. SNW is one of the few, but TNG forward feels far more unrelated to TOS.

I don't think anything is overwritten.
 
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