TOS Klingons explained?

[JohnD]

The Klingon forehead explanation was rubbish.

But I wouldn't have minded a story about the genetically enhanced Humans. They were very well cast and interesting to watch, when they weren't harassing scientists by stuffing them in tubes filled with death-dealing biological weapons. Some of the choreography of the fighting sequences was particularly effective ...

I believe it was actually a great explanation for the absence of ridges to mask TOS budgetary restraints and a 1960s audience being unable to face late 1970s alien prosthetics.

But another explanation could have been in the scattering of species by "the old ones" the further away in any direction the greater the difference in species.

In TOS neither the Klingon home world or the Romulan home world was in range of Federation space. I got the impression at least that the three bordered one another at their extreme outer edges.

So the closer to human occupied space one was the more human like the species. The deeper into the Klingon space one would go the more forehead ridges and spiny backs etc.

The same with Romulans, the deeper into Romulan space the Romulans had the V shaped forehead ridge and less like the more human looking Vulcans.

 

[2takesfrakes]

But can't the Artistry just stand on its own? I mean ... I understand that it's just reminding us that we're in the act of watching entertainment, from a viewer perspective, when the heads change for no onscreen reason. But for me, I'm OK with that. I don't need to be told why, unless it's based on real life, some way. Like, here's the Elephant Man's makeup one way, this week ... now it looks like that, next week ...I don't want to see that shit. Make him look like he's supposed to! But on STAR TREK, I have a much greater tolerance for Artistic License. I guess I'm just disappointed that I'm in the minority, there. I didn't need any reason(s) why, if they didn't feel at all compelled to get into it. I would understand ...

 

[Nyotarules]

So the closer to human occupied space one was the more human like the species. The deeper into the Klingon space one would go the more forehead ridges and spiny backs etc.

Does not explain way Dax's Klingon friends, Kangm Koroth etc looked different in DS9 and TOS. Maybe smooth foreheads fell out of fashion in the 24th century lol

 

[Nyotarules]

I'm irritated at the universal look of Vulcans and Romulans in ENT and the 24th century. That everyone, male and female had the same short square hairstyle and square shouldered clothes was annoying, and to me played to the ethnocentric, human mindset of people from X race 'all look the same'. Even TOS had variety, T'Pring and T'Pau had elaborate hairstyles and clothes, maybe they wore a different wig for Spock's wedding?

 

[2takesfrakes]

The kitsch of the Vulcan/Romulan costumes from TNG on through ENT always was hard to accept and look at. The wigs, the forehead, the ears, in fact ... The Ears!!! Even TOS Spock's ears looked more real than this. I understand Michael Westmore's on a budget, he's short on staff and the whole bit, but come on ... Even T'Pol, with her mushroom wig and Human eyebrows, in the beginning. Somewhere in the 4th Season, later on, she was allowed to really look stunning.

These Are The Voyages, especially, she looked quite beautiful and appropriately Vulcan. She wore unnaturally coloured lipstick, her wig was cut in a very naturalistic looking way ... it was even tinted, if I recall. She just looked great. And then you can't help but get pissed off at it and say ... "this is how she could have - should have - looked the entire run of the show!!!" It's not that hard to enhance a supermodel's assets, even on what they paid Michael Westmore's department.

 

[JohnD]

But can't the Artistry just stand on its own? I mean ... I understand that it's just reminding us that we're in the act of watching entertainment, from a viewer perspective, when the heads change for no onscreen reason. But for me, I'm OK with that. I don't need to be told why, unless it's based on real life, some way. Like, here's the Elephant Man's makeup one way, this week ... now it looks like that, next week ...I don't want to see that shit. Make him look like he's supposed to! But on STAR TREK, I have a much greater tolerance for Artistic License. I guess I'm just disappointed that I'm in the minority, there. I didn't need any reason(s) why, if they didn't feel at all compelled to get into it. I would understand ...

Agreed.

My comments were... since the already went to the trouble of explaining...

season 3 twilight

 

[JohnD]

I do not know which costume / make up (is that the right word?) department did these but I liked the Final Frontier Klingons

 

[CorporalCaptain]

2. No female captains in TOS according to Turnabout Intruder
Well lets just say Kirks ex was crazy so was spouting rubbish. Or the whole of the Federation went culturally backward after the Romulan War when it comes to gendar politics in the armed forces. Or the success of Kirk's five year mission resulted in rapid increased promotions for females and a change in uniform to those onesies in TMP. Or Starfleet lost a sex discrimination lawsuit.

Or TOS was produced in the 1960s....

 

[2takesfrakes]

... I liked the Final Frontier Klingons

I didn't like Spice's head, I forget her character's name. I want to say it was "Vix" but I honestly don't remember. It just looked very fake, although the subtle ridges were the right idea. Klaa had a very cool head, I have to agree on that. It looked like it was part of him, unlike the helmet heads that Michael Westmore espoused.

 

[Nyotarules]

Or TOS was produced in the 1960s....

You mean its a 50 year old TV show! Clutch de pearls!

 

[2takesfrakes]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this, before, but the concept of Klingons using the augments to make themselves invincible wasn't a bad idea, really. And though I admire the audacity that they actually "went there," it was probably best left to the realm of STAR TREK novels. It would've been a best-seller, there can be no doubt of it. But for me, personally, I didn't want or need it explained, as I said.

Bob Fletcher was an amazingly talented costume designer and Artist. That he was given the opportunity to redesign the Klingons and have say in other alien designs was a smart move. The Klingons looked very interesting, they hold up, even now. Their costumes are a work of art. I really hate the costume designers that came after. They just didn't have Bob's Artistry. Maybe he retired, or got bored of STAR TREK, who knows? But that STAR TREK picked him up from the first movie through, I don't know ... 4, I guess, was brilliant.

 

[STEPhon IT]

In Trials and Tribbleations, a DS9 episode, Worf is confronted with the sight of smooth foreheaded Klingons of the TOS era. Questioned by his peers he says "we do not speak of it", obviously embarrassed.

That was the admission that there are actual differences in TOS era Klingons and TNG onward, that we as the audience aren't supposed to just pretend otherwise like we do with styrofoam boulders and other TOSness.

The ENT arc gives us the explanation for what fans have wondered for years about

But it didn't explain how the Klingons gotten so intelligent and sinister all through out Kirk's era and then became stupid again in the Picard era. Maybe it was best the Klingons remained smart and not so animalistic.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But it didn't explain how the Klingons gotten so intelligent and sinister all through out Kirk's era and then became stupid again in the Picard era. Maybe it was best the Klingons remained smart and not so animalistic.

Actually it does. One of the humanized Klingon in ENT says to her commander that she actually felt fear for the first time since she was a child. It's essentially made them think and react like humans as well.

 

[Kor]

But it didn't explain how the Klingons gotten so intelligent and sinister all through out Kirk's era and then became stupid again in the Picard era. Maybe it was best the Klingons remained smart and not so animalistic.

Not everything needs to be spelled out in exact detail. It was apparent that the human augment DNA affected their neurology, so their way of thinking would be significantly different.

Kor

 

[STEPhon IT]

Thing is when Worf went back in time to the K7 spacestation why didn't he lose his ridges and bumps if the virus was still in effect at that time? Plot hole or what?
JB

It never needed an explanation, and what the writers had thought up was ridiculous, especially on DS9. The treatment from the smartest characters on the show making faces of the classic Klingon appearance was insulting. As if, they've never read their history books about Klingons looking that way??? Those characters used to be smarter than that. The producers should have had Worf and crew roam around and not give the classic look any notice.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Actually it does. One of the humanized Klingon in ENT says to her commander that she actually felt fear for the first time since she was a child. It's essentially made them think and react like humans as well.

Klingons in the classic Star Trek felt fear??? Feh!

I think the fearful Klingons concept started with DS9, 1 ep with Alexander, and the other where Worf was with a sect full of cowards. All were terrible episodes IMO.

 

[eyeresist]

Cowardly Klingons and weaselly Vulcans started with TNG, I think. I was discomfited by the change, but ultimately I think it was necessary to stop the species being one-note caricatures.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Cowardly Klingons and weaselly Vulcans started with TNG, I think. I was discomfited by the change, but ultimately I think it was necessary to stop the species being one-note caricatures.

Weaselly Vulcans came from Deep Space 9, with Maquis pt 1, I hated those 2 episodes.

 

[STEPhon IT]

If cowardly Klingons you're probably referring to the Duras family, is wrong. The Duras' were every bit as Klingon TNG could produce; sinister, cunning, manipulative, and lethal. They were not cowards. The coward crap came from DS9 where 1 clown said, "Today is not a good day to die." Ugh!

 

[Shikarnov]

2. No female captains in TOS according to Turnabout Intruder
Well lets just say Kirks ex was crazy so was spouting rubbish. Or the whole of the Federation went culturally backward after the Romulan War when it comes to gendar politics in the armed forces. Or the success of Kirk's five year mission resulted in rapid increased promotions for females and a change in uniform to those onesies in TMP. Or Starfleet lost a sex discrimination lawsuit.

I think she was probably spouting rubbish... Menagerie brought the events and characters of The Cage into canon, and Pike's XO seemed, for all intents and purposes, to be rather formidable. Given the ostensible reverence TOS had for starship commanders, I can't see Starfleet denying a command to somebody with her level of training and experience based on anatomy alone.