TOS Klingons explained?

[Nyotarules]

I think she was probably spouting rubbish... Menagerie brought the events and characters of The Cage into canon, and Pike's XO seemed, for all intents and purposes, to be rather formidable. Given the ostensible reverence TOS had for starship commanders, I can't see Starfleet denying a command to somebody with her level of training and experience based on anatomy alone.

True but some might argue canon was about as consistent as laughing Vulcans. It was the network execs that did not take to the Number one character so her nonsmiling, expressionless personality was transferred to Spock. As for 'The Cage' it had no concept of a galactic Federation. The set up was based on an Earth/Human only space program.
Come to think of it in TNG when the Enterpise came across Federation colonies they were dominated or 100 per cent populated by humans of European descent, in fifteen years of space travel that is ridiculous.

 

[Shikarnov]

True but some might argue canon was about as consistent as laughing Vulcans. It was the network execs that did not take to the Number one character so her nonsmiling, expressionless personality was transferred to Spock. As for 'The Cage' it had no concept of a galactic Federation. The set up was based on an Earth/Human only space program.

I understand what you're saying, but still -- real world explanations and machinations aside -- the character was established and it seems reasonable to make certain inferences about women in command based on her presence.

Come to think of it in TNG when the Enterpise came across Federation colonies they were dominated or 100 per cent populated by humans of European descent, in fifteen years of space travel that is ridiculous.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Nyotarules]

I understand what you're saying, but still -- real world explanations and machinations aside -- the character was established and it seems reasonable to make certain inferences about women in command based on her presence....
.

ITA hence the script for 'Turnabout Intruder' missed an opportunity or their 1960's sexist panties were showing big time that day. There could have been a line about 'Pike's former XO would disagree with you Janice, Number one is a great Captain' or something similar. It was a terrible ending to a wonderful, groundbreaking show.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I thought Berman and Co. was trying too hard to erase what the Klingons were in Star Trek. Gene made a mistake altering the Klingons into space werewolves in TMP, and Nimoy made another error in altering the Romulans as the villains in ST:III.
If anyone would look at the Bird of Prey and you would assess it was originally conceived as a Romulan ship not a Klingon.

 

[Kor]

Klingons in the classic Star Trek felt fear??? Feh!

I think the fearful Klingons concept started with DS9, 1 ep with Alexander, and the other where Worf was with a sect full of cowards. All were terrible episodes IMO.

Cowardly Klingons started all the way back in Errand of Mercy.

Remember the guy Kirk jumped, and he spilled the beans on the whole Klingon operation when Kirk threatened to kill him?

Kor

 

[STEPhon IT]

So in your opinion a Klingon is considered a coward because a person has the upperhand and the Klingon spills the beans??? I would call that being smart and checkmate, you can live to battle another day. I mean, is it really interesting to have Klingon characters so into the mold of Worf? A reactive, loud, horny, very stupid Klingon. Getting killed because of pride is being stupid, and not Klingon in TOS.

 

[Kor]

Yes, he was a sniveling coward who feared for his own life. A loyal and professional soldier should not turn traitor and jeopardize the mission by spilling the beans when he is captured or his own life is threatened.

Kor

 

[STEPhon IT]

Oy! That answer reminds me of what Quark thought of primitive humans in the ep. "Little Green Men"

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It was the network execs that did not take to the Number one character

That's a myth. The execs didn't like the actress.

 

[johnnybear]

Cowardly Klingons and weaselly Vulcans started with TNG, I think. I was discomfited by the change, but ultimately I think it was necessary to stop the species being one-note caricatures.

Do you remember Kras from Friday's Child?
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Klingons in the classic Star Trek felt fear??? Feh!

I think the fearful Klingons concept started with DS9, 1 ep with Alexander, and the other where Worf was with a sect full of cowards. All were terrible episodes IMO.

Kras from Friday's Child was the first, STEP!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Cowardly Klingons started all the way back in Errand of Mercy.

Remember the guy Kirk jumped, and he spilled the beans on the whole Klingon operation when Kirk threatened to kill him?

Kor

Yeah I'd forgotten him, but cowardly in character the first klingon like that was Kras!
JB

 

[Nyotarules]

That's a myth. The execs didn't like the actress.

Good thing they did not recognise her as Christine Chapel then lol

 

[T'Girl]

^ Most likely they did.

As I understand it, while the execs loved the idea of a female first officer, they simply weren't impressed with Barrett's acting abilities. Plus they didn't like that Roddenberry (a married man) was trying to give a important role to his girlfriend.

Putting your girlfriend in a minor reoccurring role is one thing, but that's different than putting her in a demanding second billing position where she have to have the talent to assist in carrying the series.
.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Yeah I'd forgotten him, but cowardly in character the first klingon like that was Kras!
JB

In your opinion, Johnny. Not mine.

 

[johnnybear]

How come, STEP?
JB

 

[STEPhon IT]

Kirk flips him over and took a dagger away from him. Kras talks about his intentions but mentions he doesn't have a quarrel. The Capellan mentioned he sees fear in his eyes but that's subjective.

 

[Lt. Tyler]

It still burns my ass after all these years. ENT ruined everything. They couldn't just leave it a mystery. They had to go fuck with the Klingons and explain it all to us. You know, as much as I blame the creators of ENT, I blame Roddenberry more. It was so typical of him to do what he did for Star Trek: The Motion Picture and reinvent the entire Star Trek franchise and the Klingons along with it. Why? Because he wanted to pretend TOS never existed. That guy decanonized every series of Trek or large portions of Trek whenever he had problems with the powers that be and the writers. He puled the same shit with TAS, every movie after TMP because he had no hand in them. So then what?? He goes reinventing Trek again with TNG. My point is he goes changing the appearance of a firmly established alien race and says well TOS was just a badly told dramatization and it doesn't count and disregards every Star Trek fans views because he always wanted everything his way. And they will all tell you that the man was impossible to work with. No one can ever leave well enough alone. Yeah thanks Gene.

 

[eyeresist]

Yeah, screw Roddenberry - what did that guy ever do for me?

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

It still burns my ass after all these years. ENT ruined everything. They couldn't just leave it a mystery. They had to go fuck with the Klingons and explain it all to us. You know, as much as I blame the creators of ENT, I blame Roddenberry more. …

[rest of rant snipped]

Yes, I was rather appalled when I found out what Gene was really like.

But but but...TOS changed my life. It was my introduction to science fiction. It opened my world. If not for Gene, I would have found reruns of Lost in Space instead of Star Trek, and I would have thought that was what science fiction was supposed to be...

NOPE. Just no. I'll take Gene, warts and all.

I enjoyed the Klingon arc. John Schuck gave us wonderful, Shakespearean Klingon characters.