The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[archeryguy1701]

Perhaps you simply got distracted by the pretty lights.

You're probably right- I was probably just tearing up because my eyes weren't used to the brightness of everything yet.

 

[James Bond]

^^ I didn't find the Kelvin scene that emotionally moving either. In fact, the lack of some emotional texture is what really hurt this film. Even the weaker films of the franchise incorporated that sort of thing more effectively.

Well, I guess you'd be among the 2.3% of people who didn't like it.

 

[dmleo]

^^ I didn't find the Kelvin scene that emotionally moving either. In fact, the lack of some emotional texture is what really hurt this film. Even the weaker films of the franchise incorporated that sort of thing more effectively.

Well, I guess you'd be among the 2.3% of people who didn't like it.

I'm becoming a sap in my old age because I loved the opening sequence and found it genuinely emotional. I was also very moved by Quinto's protrayal of a grieving Spock.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I had tears streaming down my face at the conclusion of the Kelvin scene.

I also had to restrain myself from openly weeping when Sarek told Spock why he married his mother. Oh, the death of Amanda scene also rocked me. I felt the floor open beneath my feet and swallow me up as Amanda fell. It's a scene that would forever change the character of Spock forever. Far more than even the loss of Vulcan could.

 

[startrekwatcher]

^^ I didn't find the Kelvin scene that emotionally moving either. In fact, the lack of some emotional texture is what really hurt this film. Even the weaker films of the franchise incorporated that sort of thing more effectively.

Well, I guess you'd be among the 2.3% of people who didn't like it.

Pointing out that I might be in the minority is a rather weak argument. Afterall, I think American Idol is crap yet millions and millions watch it making it the number one show on tv and then look at the fact that a majority of Americans voted for Bush in '04. If those two examples don't undercut your argument I don't know what will.

And it isn't like I'm a cold bastard. I can turn into a marshmellow at the drop of the hat if whatever I'm watching is genuinely touching or moving. The teaser isn't bad. I know exactly what the writers are trying to achieve but it didn't work. And that is the sense I had with a lot of the film's intended emotional moments. Intellectually, I know what the writers are doing but on that emotional level they didn't reach me.

 

[Gepard]

wow! would you believe that you're the only person I know who finds that opening Kelvin scene bad? seriously, everyone I know loved it. it's one of the best scenes in the movie, IMO.

amazing how subjective art is, truly.

It certainly never ceases to amaze me.

Seriously though, if I may ask, what did you like about it?

For me, it would have been ok had they simply left out the whole thing with the birth going on at the same time as the attack and Kirk's parents talking, choosing a name, picking a kindergarten (just kidding ), etc. That just seemed incredibly contrived and (I can't think of a better word right now) cheesy to me. And, as I mentioned, all of my friends felt exactly the same way.

You're right. Strictly speaking, it is contrived. But it's awesome anyway. It's one of those scenes, like Spock's conversation with Kirk during his death at the end of TWoK, that bears no resemblance to how people would behave in real life, but works because it's a distillation of an emotion presented directly and succinctly on-screeen.

And, speaking as someone dissapointed in Trek XI, it was the best scene in the movie.

 

[Ovation]

^^ I didn't find the Kelvin scene that emotionally moving either. In fact, the lack of some emotional texture is what really hurt this film. Even the weaker films of the franchise incorporated that sort of thing more effectively.

Well, I guess you'd be among the 2.3% of people who didn't like it.

Pointing out that I might be in the minority is a rather weak argument. Afterall, I think American Idol is crap yet millions and millions watch it making it the number one show on tv and then look at the fact that a majority of Americans voted for Bush in '04. If those two examples don't undercut your argument I don't know what will.

And it isn't like I'm a cold bastard. I can turn into a marshmellow at the drop of the hat if whatever I'm watching is genuinely touching or moving. The teaser isn't bad. I know exactly what the writers are trying to achieve but it didn't work. And that is the sense I had with a lot of the film's intended emotional moments. Intellectually, I know what the writers are doing but on that emotional level they didn't reach me.

I don't like American Idol--at all. However, I don't go to American Idol fora (which I feel confident must exist) and tell the millions of fans that DO like it that they are are "idiots", "lack critical thinking skills" or are "dumb" (I've not noticed you saying that of appreciators of the new Trek film, but it has been a recurring theme with some of those who did not like it--hence the appeal to popularity on the part of some).

 

[Sakrysta]

Okay, I have my settings on the maximum number of posts per page, and this thread is still 52 pages long! I can't read all that! So forgive me if I repeat some stuff. Not that I'm going to get into huge detail...

Man, that was fun! I think what I loved most was the divergence from the timeline. As far as I'm concerned, that was a great way to refresh/restart the franchise. MUCH better than Enterprise, more's the pity. But I'm in love with the idea that, given this alternate timeline, we can start a whole new Trek history with new stories and Federation politics and inter-species dynamics. I mean, with Vulcan decimated and Romulus still strong, what will the 24th century be like? So many neat possibilities open up.

I think part of the reason I enjoyed it so much was that I was never especially attached to the original series, particularly Kirk. I found most of the characters charming, but having cut my Trek teeth on TNG and following, I had a hard time relating to most of TOS. This movie made me like these characters. I actually LIKED the character of Kirk, probably for the first time in all his many incarnations. The other characters were all quite compelling as well, and I thought they were very well cast. I went to the movie with a friend who is in her 60s and loved the original series, and she was just tickled pink by the casting. In fact, seeing it tonight with me was her second viewing, just because she enjoyed it so much and knew that I would too.

But really, the best thing about the movie is that it's genuinely entertaining. I haven't enjoyed a Trek movie this much since the first time I saw The Voyage Home. (Well, I confess, I REALLY enjoyed Insurrection too, but on a completely different level. ) The movie is so accessible to the general movie-going audience. You don't have to know anything about the franchise to watch this movie and thoroughly enjoy it. And then, for the fans, there are so many little touches that give it that extra push into the realm of awesome.

I was proud of myself for picking out Winona Ryder as Amanda. I had no idea she was in the movie. My friend didn't believe me when I told her who it was - I had a good gloating moment when the credits rolled.

Okay, now I have to go read at least the last couple pages of this thread to see how looney everyone will tell me I am.

 

[indranee]

so glad you liked it!

 

[AnnLouise]

While some of parts of the movie felt...weird...on the whole it felt like Star Trek, so the weird parts weren't that big a deal; (I mean, seeing Spock and Uhura making out in the turbolift..Kirk promoted to Captain in two weeks...just odd) I understand this was an alternate universe "origin story", I missed not seeing the Kirk/Spock friendship, along with the Kirk-Spock-McCoy troika. But those are minor quibbles. I rated it above average, and am glad to see Star Trek and successful in the same sentence again.

And Bruce Greenwood as Pike - sigh. Although I couldn't help thinking of a certain South Park episode at that final scene.

 

[indranee]

the K/S friendship was there... just, in its infancy. after all, we're seeing how it all started, right?

 

[the_wildcard]

I just saw this movie this past week. I think they did a great job in tweaking the story line just enough to give them enough freedom to do whatever they want. I didn't like it at first because it was diverging from the original series in certain events/lore, but as a stand-alone movie, it was good.

Great special effects. Man, those space battles were insane.

 

[suarezguy]

I found it hard to relate to George and mother Kirk, it seemed like they were trying to hard to make them look noble/honorable/deific, the music was definitely overblown in that scene and in general (aside from the introduction to the Naruda).

 

[Minuialeth]

In fact, the lack of some emotional texture is what really hurt this film.

Uh?! I guess it's a matter of what moves you and what doesn't, not about the lack of emotion in the movie. There was, but maybe it wasn't the kind that moves you. It's like when people say "This movie sucked" instead of saying "I didn't like it" or "I thought it sucked"

 

[Australis]

Ah, think I have an answer.

I'm willing to speculate that the people whjo didn't like the Kelvin sequence ar not parents. Not that you have to be a parent to like it, there are other beats in there too, but the whole parental thing could very well turn some people aside.

 

[MyCylon]

You're right. Strictly speaking, it is contrived. But it's awesome anyway.

Hell, no!

It's one of those scenes, like Spock's conversation with Kirk during his death at the end of TWoK, that bears no resemblance to how people would behave in real life, but works because it's a distillation of an emotion presented directly and succinctly on-screeen.

Now that scene really works for me whereas the one on the Kelvin simply does not. I think one of the reasons is that I can accept that both characters are actually there at that moment whereas I still have big problems with this notions of having the family along for the ride the way Star Trek tends to depict it.

What makes it even worse for me is that I find most on-screen births, including the time leading up to the birth, to be nigh unwatchable. They tend to be overdramatized to the point of parody in my opinion. And this one is no exception in my opinion.

And in the last moments they start picking a name? Say what?!?

"Tiberius."
"No, that's terrible. Let's call him...Jim." Ugh!

That entire part of the scene just made me cringe throughout. It's actually interesting coming here to the forum and realizing that most people liked it contrary to myself and my friends. It's one of those instances where you're convinced that everyone must feel the same way, but you suddenly find yourself in the minoriy .

And, speaking as someone dissapointed in Trek XI, it was the best scene in the movie.

No. Just...no. No, no, no. In my opinion, anyway .

 

[MyCylon]

Ah, think I have an answer.

I'm willing to speculate that the people whjo didn't like the Kelvin sequence ar not parents. Not that you have to be a parent to like it, there are other beats in there too, but the whole parental thing could very well turn some people aside.

Interesting. I suppose it's possible. However, my first thought was that it might be more of a North American vs. European thing, for example.

 

[jamestyler]

Ah, think I have an answer.

I'm willing to speculate that the people whjo didn't like the Kelvin sequence ar not parents. Not that you have to be a parent to like it, there are other beats in there too, but the whole parental thing could very well turn some people aside.

Possibly. I know since becoming a parent my emotional buttons are easier to push But in saying that I know a lot of non-parents who agree that it was the best part of the film.

And in the last moments they start picking a name? Say what?!?

"Tiberius."
"No, that's terrible. Let's call him...Jim." Ugh!

What else could they talk about? They could be depressed and misreble in the face of certain doom, or he could enjoy the last few moments of his life reminding himself why he's made the right decision.

Personally, in the very unlikely scenario that I have to save my daughter by piloting my own ship on a collision course into a Romulan Borgified supership... I'm pretty sure I'd make more jokes. But I'm a dick. I'd assume George wasn't.

 

[MyCylon]

^
I suppose I feel that conversation simply shouldn't have been happening in the first place. To me, personally, it just seems incredibly ridiculous. The valiant starship Captain riding himself and his ship to their deaths while making up names for his unborn son? Honestly, that just makes me cringe.

So had it been my choice, that scene wouldn't have been in there in the first place. However, if I was forced to include it for some reason, I think I'd probably have them talking about the simple fact that they're both afraid as well as bidding farewell to each other. There definitely would have to be a reference to the unborn child. But picking his name amid phaser fire, to me, just seems silly.

I think one of the problems I have is that the scene is so bent on trying to impress on us how Jim Kirk was literally born in battle. The desire to convey that idea goes so far that even his first name has to be picked IN BATTLE! That's how AMAZING the guy is - he's born in battle, and his name is chosen in battle!

IMHO that's just going way over the top without achieving any form of additional emotional payoff. For example, I think it would have been far, far more effective and a lot less laughable had they already chosen his name. That way, his father could have referenced the child by name instead of us having to go through a game of what's his name going to be...

Seriously, I'm happy for everyone who enjoyed the scene. I just can't possibly understand how it didn't make you want to leave the cinema .

 

[Ovation]

^
I suppose I feel that conversation simply shouldn't have been happening in the first place. To me, personally, it just seems incredibly ridiculous. The valiant starship Captain riding himself and his ship to their deaths while making up names for his unborn son? Honestly, that just makes me cringe.

So had it been my choice, that scene wouldn't have been in there in the first place. However, if I was forced to include it for some reason, I think I'd probably have them talking about the simple fact that they're both afraid as well as bidding farewell to each other. There definitely would have to be a reference to the unborn child. But picking his name amid phaser fire, to me, just seems silly.

I think one of the problems I have is that the scene is so bent on trying to impress on us how Jim Kirk was literally born in battle. The desire to convey that idea goes so far that even his first name has to be picked IN BATTLE! That's how AMAZING the guy is - he's born in battle, and his name is chosen in battle!

IMHO that's just going way over the top without achieving any form of additional emotional payoff. For example, I think it would have been far, far more effective and a lot less laughable had they already chosen his name. That way, his father could have referenced the child by name instead of us having to go through a game of what's his name going to be...

Seriously, I'm happy for everyone who enjoyed the scene. I just can't possibly understand how it didn't make you want to leave the cinema .

Of course it's over the top (it's a sci-fi action movie, not a documentary about premature labour) but a few of the points you're picking at are not as unlikely as you think. Not having a name? When my son was born--A) we didn't know if he was a boy or girl prior to birth (our choice not to know) and B) my wife and I had narrowed down a list of names, but had not chosen one (and chose one that was not on our list once we saw and held him--and we did as they do in the movie, give our son both his grandfathers' names). Not having a name hinges on something you did not raise specifically, but has been raised by others (most of whom otherwise liked the scene)--why didn't they know it was a boy? Again, some people like the "reveal" at birth. Just because you CAN know something, doesn't mean you MUST know something.

When I was born, my mother was convinced she was going to have a daughter (and I'm old enough that there was no way to tell before birth). I went without a name for four days because she'd only picked a girl's name (and my father's choice for a boy had been taken by his brother for his son (my cousin--same last name). For these reasons, I, at any rate, had no trouble believing they didn't have a name ahead of time. And if I were in the unlikeliest of circumstances where I faced death moments after my child was born AND I was communicating with my wife while/shortly after she gave birth--my child's name would certainly be among my topics of conversation.