The most disappointing Trek Movie..

[Fat Valentino]

The farther back in time Picard goes the more changes to the timeline he'll make which could be disastrous. Look at all the trouble that occured when McCoy saved Edith Keeler's life. Picard made the right decision to go back to the point right before the Nexus scooped him up, if he wants to do the least amount of damage to the timeline.

Agreed. Film narratives are not the place to make big, sweeping fan fiction changes to a large timeline, that might incorporate franchise-specific information other than anything covered in the last 14 minutes or so of the film in question.

Sure, you could take Picard back to a France orchard somewhere during the events of the episode "Family" but who other than about 10,000 HARDCORE fans would give a damn, and even then, what's Picard supposed to say?

"Sleep with one eye open, Rene, because someday a fire's going to kill you and your family..."

 

[F. King Daniel]

Definitely Insurrection. After the awesome First Contact, it was a big step back down to "glorified two-part episode"

I loved Nemesis. Evil Picard mini-me, space vampires and old Picard running around a Reman ship with two phaser rifles? Fun! Also, the nature vs. nurture Picard/Shinzon Data/B4 plot was very nicely done.

 

[RAMA]

Nemesis. I remember being so excited that another Trek film was coming out, I followed every bit of new information concerning the movie on various Trek sites and thought that the initial premise and idea sounding very promising. Then I saw the film and was bitterly disappointed. At the time, it seemed as if Nemesis would be the death of the Trek film franchise, I was surprised when years later, I heard they were making a Trek prequel. I had believed that Nemesis had truly killed any possibility of more Trek films.

Final Frontier was also pretty bad. The movie seems really campy to me, the humor is flat at best when it isn't downright insulting. Also, this film seems to be all about why nothing in the Federation works. It's not that I expect the Federation to be this perfect and wondrous utopia...but the Federation in FF is so inept that I'm surprised that the Klingons hadn't taken it over by now. Nothing works, and the movie is far from subtle in showing this. I feel like I'm being beaten over the head with a bat that reads "The Future Is Really Shitty...Also Gratuitous Divine Comedy References." A movie with references to Dante and fart jokes, awesome.

I've noticed on reviews online thatthe respect for Nemesis seems to be increasing. Saw some reviews on amazon.com that surprised me...lots of people surprised it didn't do better when they actually take the time to watch it!

RAMA

 

[Uxi]

^I would have presumed that in the Nexus, James Kirk would have been in his early to mid-30s "Hopping Galaxies" in the NCC-1701 with no bloody A, B, C, or D. Instead we have William Shatner showing off his horse and his property. Horses may be a passion for William Shatner, but I just don't see them being a passion for Kirk.

Eh, I was glad to see at JTK wasn't completely one-dimensional.

 

[DrBashir]

When JTK saw the woman on the horse, the name he said should have been "Edith". That one word would have made the scene so much better. Pay Ellison whatever it took and don't give us someone we've never heard of and say she's Kirk's greatest love.

 

[Winterwind]

When JTK saw the woman on the horse, the name he said should have been "Edith". That one word would have made the scene so much better. Pay Ellison whatever it took and don't give us someone we've never heard of and say she's Kirk's greatest love.

Why Edith? Nothing anywhere states she was the love of his life. Kirk had many women before her and many after.

 

[Uxi]

I like Carol because of way the character and relationship developed in the novelizations, but why shouldn't JTK have the opportunity to meet a woman he can love as much or more than the previous anyway, which failed for various reasons and would bring a certain amount of baggage with it. To say nothing of the idea that while JTK's life wasn't conducive to a long term relationship, that wouldn't necessarily apply to the other.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Why Edith? Nothing anywhere states she was the love of his life.

And yet it's obvious.

 

[Ghrakh]

Why Edith? Nothing anywhere states she was the love of his life. Kirk had many women before her and many after.

Since they went with that inexplicable Nexus "fantasy", at least it would have been a nice nod to the original series. Instead Kirk just comes in out of the blue, almost as if he were a new character, just to help Picard beat some guy up.

 

[Winterwind]

Why Edith? Nothing anywhere states she was the love of his life. Kirk had many women before her and many after.

Since they went with that inexplicable Nexus "fantasy", at least it would have been a nice nod to the original series. Instead Kirk just comes in out of the blue, almost as if he were a new character, just to help Picard beat some guy up.

For some perhaps. Didn't matter to me whether it was an old flame from the series or what they did which was someone brand new. Nods are nice, but not necessary.

 

[Ghrakh]

For some perhaps. Didn't matter to me whether it was an old flame from the series or what they did which was someone brand new.

You're opposed to "Edith" because it doesn't matter?

Nods are nice, but not necessary.

Never said they were, but it might have helped here.

 

[Winterwind]

Hmm. If you read my initial post that you quoted, you should notice that I was quoting someone. Here, I'll show you:

When JTK saw the woman on the horse, the name he said should have been "Edith". That one word would have made the scene so much better. Pay Ellison whatever it took and don't give us someone we've never heard of and say she's Kirk's greatest love.

Why Edith? Nothing anywhere states she was the love of his life. Kirk had many women before her and many after.

As is obvious, I'm not for or against anyone. It didn't matter to me. I was asking DrBashir why he/she felt Edith was the love of Kirk's life. Don't know how you missed that.

 

[The Dominion]

The first three TNG movies are the most disappointing to me, Generations just puked all over the fantastic ending that was The Best of Both Worlds, and the next two, while enjoyable, were irrelevant to the series timeline, and just box office reunions when we could have been getting a productive DS9/TNG crossover that could have explained what the Enterprise was doing during the Dominion War and fit with the timeline better. Not to mention all four of the TNG movies were blackholes of continuity errors.

Nemesis I did dislike at first, but it's really a good movie when you look at it. It finally focused on the Romulans, it had impressive execution, and it wasn't afraid to piss of fans by ending on a dark note. Imo, the main reason why it didn't do well was simply that Data's death upset people to the point of denial.

 

[Therin of Andor]

When JTK saw the woman on the horse, the name he said should have been "Edith". That one word would have made the scene so much better.

In the novelization, Kirk relives this scene, and a wedding scene, over and over. Each time the woman is different: Carol, Edith, Antonia, Ruth, etc.

 

[RAMA]

When JTK saw the woman on the horse, the name he said should have been "Edith". That one word would have made the scene so much better.

In the novelization, Kirk relives this scene, and a wedding scene, over and over. Each time the woman is different: Carol, Edith, Antonia, Ruth, etc.

Ugh can we forget about the Nexus altogether?

 

[BriGuy]

The first three TNG movies are the most disappointing to me, Generations just puked all over the fantastic ending that was The Best of Both Worlds, and the next two, while enjoyable, were irrelevant to the series timeline, and just box office reunions when we could have been getting a productive DS9/TNG crossover that could have explained what the Enterprise was doing during the Dominion War and fit with the timeline better. Not to mention all four of the TNG movies were blackholes of continuity errors.

Nemesis I did dislike at first, but it's really a good movie when you look at it. It finally focused on the Romulans, it had impressive execution, and it wasn't afraid to piss of fans by ending on a dark note. Imo, the main reason why it didn't do well was simply that Data's death upset people to the point of denial.

Well...

TNG didn't end with Best of Both Worlds. It ended with All Good Things (as in all good things must come to an end).

First Contact was not at all irrelevant to the series' timeline, as it picked up the story with the Borg, and harkened back to a pivotal time in the history of Earth, Starfleet and the Federation itself.

While I watched DS9 from premiere to finale as it aired, a DS9/TNG crossover would've been fanwank and a pure train wreck, like Generations was as a TOS/TNG crossover. The only ones who care about the minutiae of "where" the Enterprise is or was during events of DS9 are the serious hardcore fans, and there's not enough of them to support a movie. It wouldn't have worked, the powers that be knew that, and it wasn't done.

I've said before that I enjoyed Nemesis, and didn't know that I should have been vomiting uncontrollably until I got home and went online. But when you look closely the movie does fall apart, and could've been better. And that's not because they "killed" Data. If anything, I'm upset they left a dangling thread in the form of B4, rather than finally having the guts to have a character die and STAY dead.

Oh, and Nemesis wasn't really about the Romulans, which is what I was hoping we'd get. Instead they invented the Remans. Would've been better if it had been a Romulan movie.

 

[BriGuy]

^I would have presumed that in the Nexus, James Kirk would have been in his early to mid-30s "Hopping Galaxies" in the NCC-1701 with no bloody A, B, C, or D. Instead we have William Shatner showing off his horse and his property. Horses may be a passion for William Shatner, but I just don't see them being a passion for Kirk.

But don't you remember that scene from Khan, when McCoy talks to him?

"This isn't about age, and you know it. It's about you running a god damn computer console when you want to be in Texas chopping wood and riding horsies."

Or maybe that was the Romulan Ale talking...

It's great stuff, ya know.

 

[The Dominion]

The first three TNG movies are the most disappointing to me, Generations just puked all over the fantastic ending that was The Best of Both Worlds, and the next two, while enjoyable, were irrelevant to the series timeline, and just box office reunions when we could have been getting a productive DS9/TNG crossover that could have explained what the Enterprise was doing during the Dominion War and fit with the timeline better. Not to mention all four of the TNG movies were blackholes of continuity errors.

Nemesis I did dislike at first, but it's really a good movie when you look at it. It finally focused on the Romulans, it had impressive execution, and it wasn't afraid to piss of fans by ending on a dark note. Imo, the main reason why it didn't do well was simply that Data's death upset people to the point of denial.

Well...

TNG didn't end with Best of Both Worlds. It ended with All Good Things (as in all good things must come to an end).

Gah, I mean to type All Good Things.

 

[The Dominion]

Well...

First Contact was not at all irrelevant to the series' timeline, as it picked up the story with the Borg, and harkened back to a pivotal time in the history of Earth, Starfleet and the Federation itself.

While I watched DS9 from premiere to finale as it aired, a DS9/TNG crossover would've been fanwank and a pure train wreck, like Generations was as a TOS/TNG crossover. The only ones who care about the minutiae of "where" the Enterprise is or was during events of DS9 are the serious hardcore fans, and there's not enough of them to support a movie. It wouldn't have worked, the powers that be knew that, and it wasn't done.

I've said before that I enjoyed Nemesis, and didn't know that I should have been vomiting uncontrollably until I got home and went online. But when you look closely the movie does fall apart, and could've been better. And that's not because they "killed" Data. If anything, I'm upset they left a dangling thread in the form of B4, rather than finally having the guts to have a character die and STAY dead.

Oh, and Nemesis wasn't really about the Romulans, which is what I was hoping we'd get. Instead they invented the Remans. Would've been better if it had been a Romulan movie.

Sure, a DS9/TNG could have been more on the "fanwank" side, but I think it could also have benn more productive than having the TNG crew come back just to spontaneously chase the Borg through time. It could have been terrible, but that all depends on how it was done. Read the DS9 Avatar books, those gave me the idea. Plus it would have taken advantage of what was happening in the series at the time, and would have been infinitely more memorable than Insurrection.

In regard to First Contact, I really liked the "first contcact" part of it, but the Borg didn't do anything special that hadn't been done much better on episodes of the series, plus the Borg Queen ruined their concept of being a collective mind, and turned them in to a beehive dictatorship imo.

And yes, one of Nemesis' biggest flaws is letting the Remans hijack to show.

 

[Uxi]

The biggest problem with First Contact is why the Borg stopped there. Why do they keep sending one cube at a time? Next time send a dozen or a hundred.