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Spoilers The Acolyte

The episode was called Destiny, not Fate.
With that in mind, I fully expect Mae's perspective episode will be the other side of that titular coin and I bet it'll be the penultimate episode of the season.

I really enjoyed that. I wonder what the relationship of this coven to Dathomir and the Nightsisters is. Perhaps their precursors came from another galaxy (per Ahsoka) and then split into various colonies. Interesting how different the sisters were/are from each other.
I'm very curious about this as well. Considering they call themselves exiled witches, the connection between the two definitely feels deliberate. I wonder if The Acolyte will further connect with Ahsoka in some fashion, if only thematically.

Where did Osha learn the Jedi were good? The Jedi definitely didn't come off well here. I've always had some problems with the whole "taking very young children from their families", but this made me wonder how much say the families have in the whole thing.
I wondered about Osha's knowledge about the Jedi, too. Considering the immediacy of their arrival and the vitriol the other sisters have for them, how did Osha get that impression?

I also wondered what was so dangerous about being outside of the fortress. Mother Koril made it sound like that the threat was a longstanding one and yet the Jedi only recently arrived. Was that threat what actually killed them?
 
I wonder if the witches are related to the Mountain Clan witches from Tales of the Empire at all.
 
I really enjoyed that. I wonder what the relationship of this coven to Dathomir and the Nightsisters is. Perhaps their precursors came from another galaxy (per Ahsoka) and then split into various colonies.
When a culture is that ancient, it's a fair bet they spawned countless off-shoot cults, sects, religions, denominations and what-have-you over the millennia; most of which that still persist may not even know of their connection to the Ancient Witch Kingdom of the Dathmiri. So it's not impossible.
That said; while I can see several parallels to the Nightsisters specifically, beyond the surface level "it's an all-female coven of force using witches" -- Nightsisters do talk a bit about the threads of fate, are considered dark side users, and claim to be living in exile -- this is a type of force use (and philosophy!) that whether they realise or acknowledge it or not is *much* closer to that of the Jedi. Nightsisters are all about the Magiks, and tapping into the living primordial power of a specific place. Dathomir, in their case.

Loved this different take on the Force. It makes sense there would be different views of it in different groups.
Like I said; I was struck by how similar their outlook was the to Jedi way in terms of the nature of the force itself. They mostly seem to be hung up on semantics and perceived differences rather than anything diametrically opposed . . . which feels pretty typical of most religious rivalries. Honestly, it seems the more in common they have, the more likely they are to start trying to burn each other at the steak.
To extend that analogy; whatever the tension is between this coven and the Jedi, it doesn't feel like a "Christians vs. Pagans" thing to me, so much as a "Catholics vs Protestants" thing (very very broadly speaking, of course!)
Where did Osha learn the Jedi were good?
I wondered about Osha's knowledge about the Jedi, too. Considering the immediacy of their arrival and the vitriol the other sisters have for them, how did Osha get that impression?
I think it was just a feeling she had. Probably through the force. Both Ahsoka and Yoda have a natural talent for seeing through to a person's true intentions and intellectually just know if they're good or bad. It seemed to be something like that.
I've always had some problems with the whole "taking very young children from their families", but this made me wonder how much say the families have in the whole thing.
From everything we've seen so far on Clone Wars, TotE etc; it's very much a choice.
I think the point of contention here isn't that there are force sensitive kids, but the whole situation would seem highly suspicious from the Jedis' perspective. I mean they're the only two kids in a group of several dozen adults (many of them armed) hiding away in an old fortress on a deserted world, supposedly using the dark side of the force . . . it has cult indoctrination and training written all over it. I think the Jedi are mostly using their right to test potentials as a way to assess just what the hell this lot are up to. Of course we still don't have the full picture oh how things went so badly sideways that night.
Side note: I suspect the not so subtle parallels to Waco Texas circa 1993 are not entirely unintentional.
I also wondered what was so dangerous about being outside of the fortress. Mother Koril made it sound like that the threat was a longstanding one and yet the Jedi only recently arrived. Was that threat what actually killed them?
I think it was less about the outside being especially dangerous, and more about keeping the girls hidden. They already knew Jedi were on-planet and in the area by that point, so it stands to reason they were trying to avoid basically what happened.
 
There seems to be a right to refuse going with the Jedi. For infants the choice seems to be with the parents, but with a youngling the choice appears to be theirs alone. It was Anakin's choice to leave with Qui-gon. It was Osha's choice to become a Jedi, just like it was Mae's choice to not be a Jedi. The four Jedi did not seem prepared to just steal the children. But they were going to insist on having them tested.

I partly think that the testing is also a way to track Force individuals. To have them known in case one learns some powers and becomes a problem the Jedi will have a heads up. And that is without any Sith to worry about.
 
A third party is most definitely playing off both the Jedi and the Coven, and now I’m even more intrigued as to who / what the shadowy character with the red saber is - as seen talking to Mae, in one of the first two eps.

The Games’ afoot! :)
 
Yeah, from the trailer, Mae's master is almost definitely involved in whatever went down with the coven and the Jedi.
That's another odd thing. Why couldn't they get children any other way? Because they're supposedly in hiding ( but the Jedi know, somehow ) and there are no men? And where power in the Force is concerned, what if they got someone at Sabine's level? The Ahsoka show indicates such an individual would not be useless...
I have feeling there was more to Mae & Osha's creation than just Aniseya wanting kids. This is a pretty advanced universe so I'm pretty sure if that was all she was after, there are ways to do it that don't involve what are probably forbidden uses of the Force/Thread. As for the last part of your question, the girls were created using The Force, so I'm pretty sure it was a certainty they were going to extremely powerful, and I have feeling that was a big part of Aniseya's motivation in creating them.
This female group seemed to be like proto Dathomir Witches ( if they are not direct precursors)
The Acolyte is only 1XX years before The Phantom Menace and I'm pretty sure the Nighsisters have been around for hundreds or possibly thousands of years, so this coven is related to them, they would have split off from them.
and that one Master glimpsed in the pilot will likely be a Sith or closely related ( possibly that merchant guy in another "shocking" twist).
I don't think there's any question that they are a Sith, they've been talking about the show involving the Sith since it was first announced.


There seems to be a right to refuse going with the Jedi. For infants the choice seems to be with the parents, but with a youngling the choice appears to be theirs alone. It was Anakin's choice to leave with Qui-gon. It was Osha's choice to become a Jedi, just like it was Mae's choice to not be a Jedi. The four Jedi did not seem prepared to just steal the children. But they were going to insist on having them tested.

I partly think that the testing is also a way to track Force individuals. To have them known in case one learns some powers and becomes a problem the Jedi will have a heads up. And that is without any Sith to worry about.
Yeah, the Jedi seemed to be more than willing to leave Mae and Osha behind, until Osha started insisting she wanted to be tested and go with them. I am curious what the Jedi do if a child or their parents absolutely refuse to let them join the Jedi. Somehow removing their powers seems a little extreme, if it's even possible, but I'm assuming they must do something to ensure they won't become dangerous in the future. I'm thinking they would at least monitor them in some way over the years.
 
I've always had some problems with the whole "taking very young children from their families", but this made me wonder how much say the families have in the whole thing.
I remember he EU having a novel about a Jedi who survived Order 66 then, in the immediate aftermath reunited with his birth mother, and was surprised to find out she had developed doubts about handing her child to the Jedi, as in his experience, many parents gladly hand their children over to the Jedi, as apparently saying "my baby was chosen by the Jedi" gives them incredible bragging rights. Which makes parents in the SW universe sound like pretty horrible people, now that I think about it.
 
When a culture is that ancient, it's a fair bet they spawned countless off-shoot cults, sects, religions, denominations and what-have-you over the millennia; most of which that still persist may not even know of their connection to the Ancient Witch Kingdom of the Dathmiri. So it's not impossible.
Why would they not know?

On present day Earth, if a culture is thousands of years old, its origins are prehistoric. That’s not the case in the Star Wars galaxy.
 
Why would they not know?

On present day Earth, if a culture is thousands of years old, its origins are prehistoric. That’s not the case in the Star Wars galaxy.
Earth has the benefit of local archeological discoveries. Scattered tribes of the Dathomir don't have that same benefit because they're potentially spread across multiple systems throughout the galaxy...with an origin point of an entirely different galaxy.
 
Why would they not know?

On present day Earth, if a culture is thousands of years old, its origins are prehistoric. That’s not the case in the Star Wars galaxy.
If it's a colony world and records are lost they could easily not know. Memory is fallible, as are historical records.
 
I remember he EU having a novel about a Jedi who survived Order 66 then, in the immediate aftermath reunited with his birth mother, and was surprised to find out she had developed doubts about handing her child to the Jedi, as in his experience, many parents gladly hand their children over to the Jedi, as apparently saying "my baby was chosen by the Jedi" gives them incredible bragging rights. Which makes parents in the SW universe sound like pretty horrible people, now that I think about it.
At this stage did any jedi actually die during order 66 :guffaw:

I found the whole coven idea really interesting. It sounds like these things are explored in EU stuff but it's good to see in the more mainstream shows. It makes sense that the Jedi would have conflicting religions and cults and I am disappointed we have yet to get more of the Church of the Jedi that were teased in TFA and RO.
 
Why would they not know?

On present day Earth, if a culture is thousands of years old, its origins are prehistoric. That’s not the case in the Star Wars galaxy.
Sure. Thousands. We're talking *tens of thousands* in a galaxy that's seen massive upheavals in civilisation and population, from the Rakatta invasions, to the Sith wars, to the Mandalorian conquests. That means genocides, pogroms, mass enslavements of planetary populations, displacement of refugees, diasporas of entire cultures and peoples, over and over and over again. Knowledge gets lost very easily, and evidence only means something if you have the context, or even know it's there to look for in the first place.

How much do we understand or even know here on Earth about pre-Ice Age religious practices, mythology, or literally anything cultural outside of some red ochre on some cave walls? Basically nothing, and we have the benefit of it all happening on this planet. In Star Wars it could have taken place across a thousand planets, some of which may or may not even be known, much less inhabited, or even habitable anymore. Some of it may have happened aboard vast nomadic fleets of starships that have long since been melted for scrap or left to drift in the interstellar void.

It really doesn't take much imagination to think of how any culture or religion can loose it's own history. After all; we have.
 
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Sure. Thousands. We're talking *tens of thousands* in a galaxy that's seen massive upheavals in civilisation and population, from the Rakatta invasions, to the Sith wars, to the Mandalorian conquests. That means genocides, pogroms, mass enslavements of planetary populations, displacement of refugees, diasporas of entire cultures and peoples, over and over and over again. Knowledge gets lost very easily, and evidence only means something if you have the context, or even know it's there to look for in the first place.

How much do we understand or even know here on Earth about pre-Ice Age religious practices, mythology, or literally anything cultural outside of some red ochre on some cave walls? Basically nothing, and we have the benefit of it all happening on this planet. It Star Wars it could have taken place across a thousand planets, some of which may or may not even be known, much less inhabited, or even habitable anymore. Some of it may have happened aboard vast nomadic fleets of starships that have long since been melted for scrap or left to drift in the interstellar void.

It really doesn't take much imagination to think of how any culture or religion can loose it's own history. After all; we have.
I agree a culture or history could easily be lost in Star Wars but comparing it to our illiterate ancestors just because of "time" isn't correct.

A technological space faring civilization would leave a lot more eto be found. So there could be civilisations not known about but any once known would leave a lot more than cave drawings.
 
So.. you can leave the order.. seemingly whenever.. by choice or by washing out.. but can't opt out when the baby Nappers come a calling? huh.. GET OFF MY LAWN!

They made brief mention of "republic laws" around force sensitives, albeit with no elaboration.

My interpretation/guess is that the Republic and/or Jedi don't care if a force user is trained by the Jedi, but they do care if they're trained by anyone else. In other words, the choices are:

  1. Trained by the Jedi.
  2. Not trained at all, enjoy your life.
Since the witches were training force users outside of the legally permitted bounds, the Jedi showed up. Sort of like an interstellar CPS.
 
They made brief mention of "republic laws" around force sensitives, albeit with no elaboration.

My interpretation/guess is that the Republic and/or Jedi don't care if a force user is trained by the Jedi, but they do care if they're trained by anyone else. In other words, the choices are:

  1. Trained by the Jedi.
  2. Not trained at all, enjoy your life.
Since the witches were training force users outside of the legally permitted bounds, the Jedi showed up. Sort of like an interstellar CPS.

I don't think so. I don't think the law has anything to do with the witches, per se. The Coven is clearly not itself illegal, or the Jedi would move against it openly.

I suspect the law just says that the Jedi get to test any and all Force sensitive or potentially sensitive children. Basically, that the Jedi get to legally cull any potentials before any other sect gets a crack at them.

The Jedi didn't so much care that the witches were training new recruits. Rather, it was that the Jedi didn't get first crack at those recruits that was the issue. The Jedi are the state sponsored religion who get to steal any potential adherents from any other faith under penalty of state sanction.
 
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