Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[Phoenix219]

See, I think S2, by far, did riskier stuff. More swing for the fences stuff for sure.

In S1, the only "swing for the fences/risky" episode I can recall was "Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach." Maybe the comedy ep with "Spock Amok."

Meanwhile, S2 had a comedy episode with "Charades." A much riskier/darker ep than "Suffering" with "Under the Cloak of War." Darker and riskier because you have main cast going dark, not a guest star. "Subspace Rhapsody" is a huge swing for the fences. Like it or not, that isn't a episode of normal Trek. Huge risk. Much more so than anything S1 did. Likewise "Those Old Scientists." A crossover from LD was hugely risky. Would audiences unfamiliar with LD even get it/like it? And while I don't think "Ad Astra Per Aspera" was necessarily risky, it certainly was a big swing. They were trying for a home run there. And hit one, IMHO. YMMV, of course. Carol Kane is a big swing. Having a La'An/Kirk ep was a pretty big swing, and I thought that ep was wonderfully done.

I mean, I guess S1 had some swings too. "Elysium Kingdom" was a big swing. Making Una Illyrian?

What, specifically, do you guys think made S1 more swing for the fences and S2 more aiming for a B+?

For me, the argument for S1 being better is that there were more consistent B+ episodes and less potential misses. The only real misses for me in S1 were the B plot in Serene Squall and the beginning of Elysian Kingdom, before you know what is going on. If the big swings (mostly) landed for you, like they did for me, then you probably like S2 better. If not, then S1.

But I think both seasons were excellent. Top notch Trek seasons. TOS1, TOS2, TNG 3-6, DS9 3-6, ENT 3 & 4, PIC 3, PRO 1&2, SNW 1&2 + at least 1 seadon of LD. Those are murkier for me.

almost everything that you mentioned as "risky, swing for the fences" to me were mood shattering, off putting problems that make it hard for me to take the show seriously. I didn't mind M'Benga's dark turn, but at the same time, i kind of rolled my eyes at the 1st episodes action-hero war-doctor stuff all the way around. The same storyline would have worked better for someone like, a younger Admiral Cartwright perhaps. Human-spock was terrible and i expect the reverse episode this year to be just as bad, and misunderstanding how Vulcan stoicism works. I enjoyed the LD crossover for what it was, but still makes it harder to take the show seriously. The musical episode completely broke the show for me, and I will never look at it the same way again. Then again everyone has different tastes; I am quite enjoying my rewatch of TOS S3, and I didn't make it out of the first season of PRO. My favorites would probably be TOS1-3, TNG1-3, been too long since i watched DS9 to know, never made it out of the beginning of Voyager, enjoyed ENT for what it was (maybe skipping voyager made early ENT more acceptable for me? So i guess I could say ENT1-4), PIC 3, and SNW1. I was already looking at it as a rewritten timeline, so regardless to me, SNW is a separate entity all the way around.

 

[fireproof78]

The same storyline would have worked better for someone like, a younger Admiral Cartwright perhaps

Why?

Because a doctor can't be a war hero or a soldier? *Blinks in disbelief*

was already looking at it as a rewritten timeline, so regardless to me, SNW is a separate entity all the way around.

So why do the character changes matter?

 

[Phoenix219]

Why?

Because a doctor can't be a war hero or a soldier? *Blinks in disbelief*



So why do the character changes matter?

Sure a doctor can, and can work in war-like conditions, but the super soldier serum just went way over the top for me. Didn't feel like it belong in Trek, and didn't feel like they should reasonably have those type of abilities.

The character changes matter because of Word of God insisting that its still the "Prime Universe" and is supposed to directly plug into TOS.

With what has been shown on screen, its clearly not the same timeline, and none of the complaints would matter if they would just admit it.

La'an being visited by the DTI at the end of the episode that clearly showed the timeline was changed via Romulans and Khan's birth should have ended the discussion, since in TOS time travel was theoretical and discovered during the 5YM, and there was definitely no Department of Temporal Investigations. This is absolutely, clearly in a rewritten timeline, but no one will admit it, and the more they insist otherwise, the more I will complain about it, since what has been shown on screen is completely different than what we are being told.

 

[fireproof78]

Sure a doctor can, and can work in war-like conditions, but the super soldier serum just went way over the top for me. Didn't feel like it belong in Trek, and didn't feel like they should reasonably have those type of abilities.

The character changes matter because of Word of God insisting that its still the "Prime Universe" and is supposed to directly plug into TOS.

With what has been shown on screen, its clearly not the same timeline, and none of the complaints would matter if they would just admit it.

People would still complain. There is zero winning here or any measure of satisfaction. How do I know? The Kelvin Enterprise was called "too advanced for the era."

Super soldier serum makes perfect sense in universe. You have soldiers in the TNG era, you have efforts by various races to augment abilities, and looking for a tactical advantage.

What precludes M'Benga in this one? He has almost no known background beyond bring a doctor who did course of work in a Vulcan ward.

Never mind the simple idea that if a person treats it as an overwritten timeline and then saying it doesn't line up is confusing. Treated as one thing.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sure a doctor can, and can work in war-like conditions, but the super soldier serum just went way over the top for me. Didn't feel like it belong in Trek, and didn't feel like they should reasonably have those type of abilities.

Are we watching the same Star Trek? The one with superspeed water and TK pills? The one with literal supermen? But somehow a drug that temporary increases one's strength is unreasonable? We have performance enhancing drugs in the real world.

 

[cooleddie74]

This is a franchise where traveling at thousands of times the speed of light and being converted into a data pattern for transporting across great distances are so commonplace that both are like driving across town to get a bag of groceries with roughly the same amount of physical effort on the part of characters. And a temporary drug is a dealbreaker?!

 

[Nerys Myk]

And there's these guys:

 

[cooleddie74]

Hell, the troops of Colonel Green were literally a postnuclear army that controlled its soldiers by keeping them high as a kite. All the time.

At least the SNW drug faded after the passage of a few minutes or so. M'Benga and Chapel weren't huffing rhydonium the entire episode and punching holes in bulkheads.

 

[Dukhat]

Keeping soldiers high is great if you want them to do absolutely nothing. I’m not sure Gene thought that one through.

 

[fireproof78]

And there's these guys:

: Rapid progress, to where humans learned to control their military with drugs.

 

[cooleddie74]

I guess in the postatomic aftermath of World War III people weren't thinking very clearly. Nor in the pre-war period based on what we know of 21st century Earth history.

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

I mean we have some pretty effective performance enhancing drugs now, not a shocker to believe that we could have better ones in future. Protocol 12 doesn't even seem that far-fetched for today's science based on how it was described.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Keeping soldiers high is great if you want them to do absolutely nothing. I’m not sure Gene thought that one through.

Depends on the drug don't it? Berserkers are theorized to use drugs to induce their rage,

 

[cooleddie74]

During the Cold War 1980s it was suggested that NATO troops in Europe might be given amphetamines in the event of hostilities with the Warsaw Pact, to keep Western forces continuously alert during a war in Europe.

 

[Phoenix219]

Are we watching the same Star Trek? The one with superspeed water and TK pills? The one with literal supermen? But somehow a drug that temporary increases one's strength is unreasonable? We have performance enhancing drugs in the real world.

neither of those things were from the human / federation characters. alien societies are different.

People would still complain. There is zero winning here or any measure of satisfaction. How do I know? The Kelvin Enterprise was called "too advanced for the era."

Super soldier serum makes perfect sense in universe. You have soldiers in the TNG era, you have efforts by various races to augment abilities, and looking for a tactical advantage.

What precludes M'Benga in this one? He has almost no known background beyond bring a doctor who did course of work in a Vulcan ward.

Never mind the simple idea that if a person treats it as an overwritten timeline and then saying it doesn't line up is confusing. Treated as one thing.

I have a ton of issues with the plotting and decisions of the Kelvin movies, and I hate the look of the ship for a number of reasons, but I've never said it was too advanced. I just didn't like them. lol. Its an alternate universe/rewritten timeline, and we know this, so that stuff doesn't bother me.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know/like a lot of the 24th century stuff. I watched it first run, but only recently revisited (after PIC3) and still gave up by season 4. I'm looking at this solely from a "fitting with TOS" lens and not things that don't happen for a century that I could care less about. I honestly don't even know the source of some of the trivia stated here.

I already said, until they admit its a rewritten timeline, which there is enough on screen evidence of already, I am going to continue to call it out lol.

 

[Nerys Myk]

neither of those things were from the human / federation characters. alien societies are different.

So? They happened. Humans used them. They work.

 

[cooleddie74]

What constitutes continuity and common sense issues within Trekdom often aren't either.

 

[Dukhat]

Depends on the drug don't it? Berserkers are theorized to use drugs to induce their rage,

The term ‘being high’ is usually equated with marijuana use. Granted we don’t know what drugs those soldiers were on, but based on the reactions Q was acting out, I really couldn’t see those guys as any kind of efficient guard force.

 

[fireproof78]

neither of those things were from the human / federation characters. alien societies are different.


I have a ton of issues with the plotting and decisions of the Kelvin movies, and I hate the look of the ship for a number of reasons, but I've never said it was too advanced. I just didn't like them. lol. Its an alternate universe/rewritten timeline, and we know this, so that stuff doesn't bother me.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know/like a lot of the 24th century stuff. I watched it first run, but only recently revisited (after PIC3) and still gave up by season 4. I'm looking at this solely from a "fitting with TOS" lens and not things that don't happen for a century that I could care less about. I honestly don't even know the source of some of the trivia stated here.

I already said, until they admit its a rewritten timeline, which there is enough on screen evidence of already, I am going to continue to call it out lol.

Go for it. But TOS doesn't exist in a vacuum.

 

[cooleddie74]

The effects seemed to resemble the rush from heroin or some fast-acting amphetamine.