Look, it's a shame that I have to point this out to all of you, but I have been promoted to rank of Lieutenant and I expect to be treated as such. Since all of you love discovery, that means I am actually the leader of everyone.
Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NewHeavensNewEarth
- Start date
Where I win of course. I don't believe in no-win scenarios.
Tilly definitely is.
Heh ... really not looking to get much beyond 'Newbie' though, are ya.
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Sounds more like a promotion to Whoopsie is called for.
Or Whoopass?
Now, let's set an example and stay on topic.
White actresses in the main cast (outside of aliens or makeup):
TOS - 0 (2 co-stars: Barrett as Chapel and Whitney as Rand)
TAS - 0 (1 co-star: Barrett as Chapel)
TNG - 2.5: McFadden as Crusher, Crosby as Yar, and Sirtis as Troi (1 special guest star: Muldaur as Pulaski)
DS9 - 0
Voyager - 2.5: Mulgrew as Janeway, Ryan as Seven, and Dawson as Torres
Enterprise - 0
Discovery - 1: Wiseman as Tilly (4 co-stars: Coutts as Detmer, Cheeseman as Airiam, Mitich as Airiam / Nilsson, and Blackwell as Ina)
Picard - 2: Pill as Jurati and Hurd as Musiker
Lower Decks - 0
Discovery, with 1, has a better showing of "white actresses playing white, human characters" than most of the series (5 out of 9) which feature no representation in that category. If we expand beyond the main credited cast to recurring credited co-stars, the representation puts Discovery, at 5, well ahead of 2nd place TNG at 3.5.
On topic, SNW appears to feature three white actresses as, presumably, white human characters with Romijn as Una, Bush as "Miller", and Navia as "Ortegas". If the Such Sweet Sorrow and Short Treks actresses continue on as co-stars, which is highly likely, then the expanded roster could include three more: Smallwood as Amin, Talbot as Mann, and Evans as Upjohn. 6 would put it even higher than Discovery at representing this very niche group.
TOS - 0 (2 co-stars: Barrett as Chapel and Whitney as Rand)
TAS - 0 (1 co-star: Barrett as Chapel)
TNG - 2.5: McFadden as Crusher, Crosby as Yar, and Sirtis as Troi (1 special guest star: Muldaur as Pulaski)
DS9 - 0
Voyager - 2.5: Mulgrew as Janeway, Ryan as Seven, and Dawson as Torres
Enterprise - 0
Discovery - 1: Wiseman as Tilly (4 co-stars: Coutts as Detmer, Cheeseman as Airiam, Mitich as Airiam / Nilsson, and Blackwell as Ina)
Picard - 2: Pill as Jurati and Hurd as Musiker
Lower Decks - 0
Discovery, with 1, has a better showing of "white actresses playing white, human characters" than most of the series (5 out of 9) which feature no representation in that category. If we expand beyond the main credited cast to recurring credited co-stars, the representation puts Discovery, at 5, well ahead of 2nd place TNG at 3.5.
On topic, SNW appears to feature three white actresses as, presumably, white human characters with Romijn as Una, Bush as "Miller", and Navia as "Ortegas". If the Such Sweet Sorrow and Short Treks actresses continue on as co-stars, which is highly likely, then the expanded roster could include three more: Smallwood as Amin, Talbot as Mann, and Evans as Upjohn. 6 would put it even higher than Discovery at representing this very niche group.
You may want to double-check that (Hurd being listed as a white actress).
Thank you (seriously!), that finally clarifies it to everyone and we can move on.
They should just rename the spikey lady Walther, or Beretta, or Glock XD
A TAS Le-Matya would've been so nice!
Maybe he meant to give a 0.5?
He also listed Roxann Dawson as being a white woman, while (at least in the U.S. context) Latinas are not considered to be white.
I did. Her mother is German.
Those were reserved for half-aliens (Troi and Torres).
In America, generally, we consider Latinas and Latinos as racially white (although there are black Latinos as well), with a separate classification for ethnicity (Hispanic or non-Hispanic). My natural instinct was to classify Dawson and Navia as Hispanic whites. That's what I would assume they would check off on a Census form or US college application.
The whole "Hispanic =/= white" thing is a recent, racist phenomenon, and not really how it's treated in the bureaucracy or twenty years ago.
This was all for DaystromDropout's benefit. I don't consider it relevant at all, as it's possible that Jurati, Musiker, Troi, and Amin (who is presumably Middle Eastern) never even considered their own "whiteness" growing up.
You're right that up until quite recently, Latinos were seen as white in the U.S. Witness how the Latino-Anglo relationships in I Love Lucy and West Side Story were not considered to be outre at all in terms of public reception. Jews and Christians being married was probably more frowned upon at the time.
That said, when we're considering representation in media, Latinos/Latinas absolutely do "count" - no matter how pale they are, within the U.S. context.
The fact that Hispanic is a catagory worth "representing" still has no bearing on whiteness. Cameron Dias is white, Sammy Sosa is Black and they are both Hispanic.
Hey, here's a question... Are they good actors? Or does that not matter any more?
On one hand, I do think it's bullshit. Most Latinos are mixed-race to some degree (whether they look white, black, or something else entirely). But I do think that if you're Latino and are white-presenting, society treats you as white, and thus for all intents and purposes you are white. People from the Middle East have the same sort of fuzzy position in the U.S. - particularly if they have western dress. Witness the blowback from idiots that "white man" Rami Malek played Pharaoh Ahkmenrah in the Night at the Museum...when he's Egyptian.
On the other hand, in my experience the studios to attempt to use "diversity" in as broad of a context as possible. I am sure that at least in part Roxann Dawson being Latina played a role in the casting choice made...particularly considering they decided to give her character in-universe a Spanish surname. Sort of how they flipped it around for Alexander Siddig, whose character was supposed to be Latino until he was cast.
Most American men AND women have Tilly's kind of body.
And yet you persist in doing so.
IIRC she identifies as black.
