Starfleet Academy General Discussion Thread

[Jason X-Mas]

Hahaha...bullshit.




So, Trek since TNG.

Their was no real internet or social media during TNG or past Trek. The internet and social media as I see it is basically competition against tv and movies and even provides lots of the same things those things do to people., granted I think in a more shitty kind of way, most of the time. I think it does suck that young people today it seems would rather watch Tik Tok videos than a good movie but what can you do. It's what young people are into.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Their was no real internet or social media during TNG or past Trek. The internet and social media as I see it is basically competition against tv and movies and even provides lots of the same things those things do to people., granted I think in a more shitty kind of way, most of the time. I think it does suck that young people today it seems would rather watch Tik Tok videos than a good movie but what can you do. It's what young people are into.

Tell me you don't interact with young people without telling me you don't interact with young people.

 

[Tuskin38]

I miss the old phasers beams from TOS, TNG and all Berman Trek. The star wars style laser bolts are not star trek. The phaser beam was cool. Now its all pew pew action for the sake of action.

So Klingons aren’t Star Trek? Their weapons have used bolts ever since TNG.
TOS also used bolts occasionally, and Wrath of Khan the Reliant and Enterprise used bolts.

Either way, in the live action shows Starfleet ships only used bolts in Discovery Season 1. In season 2 and onward (including SNW) they use beams.

 

[ToddCam]

Sometimes I wonder if people who want Star Trek to be non-controversial and non-political do so because the progressive social commentary, which has always been there, sometimes challenges their own world views. And instead of examining their own worldviews, which makes them uncomfortable, they instead choose to dismiss the source of their discomfort as being "woke" or "preachy".

True story. I was raised in a very Evangelical household and was taught to avoid "the gays" at the cost of my soul. Even though TNG and DS9 had done allegorical stories with LGBTQ themes, I always Justified those stories to myself by saying, "well these are alien species, and we can't judge them by human standards".

It was a Star Trek comic, of all things, that got me to question my worldview on the subject. One of the main characters of Marvel's Starfleet Academy series (how's that for a full circle moment?) was depicted as being gay. However, it was buried so far in subtext, that my naive younger self never picked up on any of the clues.

Then in one issue, they made all the subtext abundantly clear enough that I finally put things together. A thoroughly disagreeable and unlikable character had figured things out and gone to Captain Sisko complaining about the unholy relationship. And I agreed with him. Every word.

Of course, his complaints were rightly slapped down by Sisko and dismissed as bigotry. Even though I knew in the moment that Sisko was right, I can't even describe to you how enraged this made me in that same moment. However after time to reflect -- and not a brief period -- I realized that I had seen myself in a Star Trek antagonist and didn't like what I saw. That this was no different than any other representation of Star Trek's ideals that I had watched the story and nodded along with. It was the first domino to fall of my previously toxic worldview. I view it as a change for the better.

So, yeah, Star Trek's woke preaching messaging had what I honestly believe to be a positive influence on who I am as a human being. That's what Star Trek does. That's what Star Trek has always done. If it ceases to do that, it will cease to be Star Trek.

I couldn't afford comics at the time so only read a couple of issues of Starfleet Academy but I later learned Matt Decker was hinted at being gay at one point. Was that the character? And who was it who condemned him? Worf?

Edit: Just to be clear, Matt Decker is not the character from "The Doomsday Machine". I think he was his great grandson.

 

[eschaton]

The same can be said of late era BermaTrek well.

Yeah, this is true. VOY was a mostly politics-free show. The strongest political theming was probably the questions it asked regarding the rights of The Doctor, and even there it was pretty muddled and incoherent depending upon the needs of the week. And ENT was if anything a right-wing coded show.

"Too woke" seems to mean "anything I don't agree with."


Like, seriously? I lean more right than left and even I think Star Trek hadn't gone far enough with its commentary for a long time. It's decidingly neutral at times, with people reading in their preferences rather than looking at topics, or other points of view, and trying to talk it out.

I feel like the secret sauce to good political themes in storytelling is to ask questions, but never provide straight answers. If you provide the answers, people will accuse you of soapboxing.

I don't want - or need - modern Trek to tell me what to think. I would like it if it told me to think a bit more often.

Their was no real internet or social media during TNG or past Trek.

This is manifestly untrue. It's well known that, for example, DS9's writers changed Gul Dukat's arc in the back portion of DS9 because they hated how many people on usenet were sympathetic with him. So they turned him into a cartoon villain post-Waltz where any subtlety vanished entirely.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I couldn't afford comics at the time so only read a couple of issues of Starfleet Academy but I later learned Matt Decker was hinted at being gay at one point. Was that the character? And who was it who condemned him? Worf?

Yes, Matt and his best friend Yoshi. Although, it was Yoshi that got outed rather than Matt. But the context clues were obvious from the start.

Yoshi Mishima

Yoshi Mishima was a 24th century Human man, a Starfleet cadet assigned to Starfleet Academy's Nebula Squadron in the 2370s decade. At the Academy, Mishima was roommate to Matt Decker of Omega Squad. (SA - T'Priell Revealed comic: "Origins") Cadet Yoshi Mishima and Cadet Matt Decker have been...

memory-beta.fandom.com

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I love that the cadet uniforms have retained the grey from the pre-3190 uniform. I really liked that uniform, but I do like its inverted 'rebilding era with optimism' variant.

The Athena looks nice in that shot, I love 32nd century design and its floaty bits.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

I think this is 100% wrong, because one of the strengths of allegorical storytelling is that you can break out of the political divide, presenting a question outside of the frame of current public policy, allowing fans to consider their own opinions.

To give an example here, say you decided to do a historical drama based on the Israel/Palestine conflict. No matter how much you tried to even your perspective by showcasing POVs on both sides, presenting complicated questions without clear answers, you would be attacked by people on both sides for having presented a slanted narrative. Many people might not even give the show a chance because they would've heard about bias from friends. On the other hand, if you show an allegorical alien planet, people might not immediately think X = Israel, Y = Palestine, and might be less likely to reflexively respond to the story, allowing for time for it to marinate.

It can be done. I'm not saying that. I guess I am saying though it is harder to do it now. People are just burned out on politics in general because it's everywhere in their life now. Trump makes it almost impossible for people not think about politics. Social Media makes it impossible,

Out of all the problems mentioned I think over saturation is maybe the biggest one of them all. It's one of the reasons why you see so many people preferring to watch older stuff. It's easier to watch The Office and not think about how shitty the present day is. I think people hate what the world has become and want to escape it in any way they can.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

It can be done. I'm not saying that. I guess I am saying though it is harder to do it now. People are just burned out on politics in general because it's everywhere in their life now. Trump makes it almost impossible for people not think about politics. Social Media makes it impossible,

Out of all the problems mentioned I think over saturation is maybe the biggest one of them all. It's one of the reasons why you see so many people preferring to watch older stuff. It's easier to watch The Office and not think about how shitty the present day is. I think people hate what the world has become and want to escape it in any way they can.

So, humanity? Because "bread and circuses" has been a thing for a while and the world has always been shitty.


What is needed is to stop pretending our world is worse than it was before. It's not. We have greater access to seeing bad things happening, but those things were always happening. I've seen the argument, and used escapism, since I was 8! This is not new.

What's needed is people to stop pretending the sky is falling and actually listen to one another rather than scream about how unfair the world is over "woke entertainment"! That's not a problem. Not talking to each other face to face is a problem. Not listening is a problem, both to ourselves, and what we actually need (as in survival needs not entertainment bullshit "needs"), and become more mindful of what we can actually do, rather than shrug, throw up our hands, and escape.

That's unhelpful.


Sighs.

 

[eschaton]

It can be done. I'm not saying that. I guess I am saying though it is harder to do it now. People are just burned out on politics in general because it's everywhere in their life now. Trump makes it almost impossible for people not think about politics. Social Media makes it impossible,

Out of all the problems mentioned I think over saturation is maybe the biggest one of them all. It's one of the reasons why you see so many people preferring to watch older stuff. It's easier to watch The Office and not think about how shitty the present day is. I think people hate what the world has become and want to escape it in any way they can.

I dunno man. Andor is/was the most popular (though not necessarily the highest viewed) Star Wars project of the modern era, and it was also the most political Star Wars ever. And hardly got any blowback from the chuds on the internet, compared to largely politics-free shows like The Acolyte.

Similarly, a lot of the right-leaning people who hated Discovery loved The Orville, where Seth McFarlane was never, ever circumspect about his politics. Hell, the last season alone had a sledgehammer metaphor about the Trump Administration, and another episode which was a direct allegory for the "debate" about trans kids. Neither of which received any blowback to speak of.

I don't think there's any evidence that people don't want politics in their media. I do think that believing you're addressing politics through casting pleases absolutely no one, however.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

Tell me you don't interact with young people without telling me you don't interact with young people.

Social media as we think of it now didn't really become what is until around 2010 or so. Remember back when the internet was something you would have to sit at a computer desk and access instead of getting it with the touch of a few button on your phone? The internet has become this all consuming thing that people both hate but also are addicted to. It's even sucked in adults.

It also doesn't matter what political side your on. Go on the internet and you will have to deal with a constant steam of people telling you that you suck because your a liberal or conservative. Then do that every day. For many hours a day and for now many,many years. It eventually wears down people and turns them into what we now have in society. Emotionally fatigued cynics that see no real hope in the future. Just more misery. That's why people turn so much to nostalgia or some false hope of making America Great again or really anything that promises change or escape.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Social media as we think of it now didn't really become what is until around 2010 or so. Remember back when the internet was something you would have to sit at a computer desk and access instead of getting it with the touch of a few button on your phone? The internet has become this all consuming thing that people both hate but also are addicted to. It's even sucked in adults.

It also doesn't matter what political side your on. Go on the internet and you will have to deal with a constant steam of people telling you that you suck because your a liberal or conservative. Then do that every day. For many hours a day and for now many,many years. It eventually wears down people and turns them into what we now have in society. Emotionally fatigued cynics that see no real hope in the future. Just more misery. That's why people turn so much to nostalgia or some false hope of making America Great again or really anything that promises change or escape.

And they're wrong. Period.

Yes, it keeps me in business but Marcus Aurelius already noted both cynicism in his time and how to move forward.

There is nothing new under the sun and humans already have all they need to progress.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

The political slants of Star Trek have never once taken me out of the narrative and made me think about the present day, I'm aware of them and it can make a scene more impactful but I can still very easily escape into the universe.

I do not use social media, I hate it and always have couldn't delete it fast enough once I left school and didn't have to communicate with anyone. My online presence is mostly to indulge my love of the fiction that means most to me.
If I specifically want the news, I will read the news.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

And they're wrong. Period.

Yes, it keeps me in business but Marcus Aurelius already noted both cynicism in his time and how to move forward.

There is nothing new under the sun and humans already have all they need to progress.

I don't see it as being right or wrong. I see it as human beings not being emotionally equipped to handle what social media has done to them. I have always compared social media and the internet being to us what you sometimes see in Sci-Fi were a society gets some kind of technology they are to primitive to handle and end up destroying ourselves. In essence humans are not mature enough or mentally adapt enough to not be fucked up by social media in ways that even tv and radio could never accomplish. AI is really going to put the nail in our coffin once it gets even more advanced.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

I don't see it as being right or wrong. I see it as human beings not being emotionally equipped to handle what social media has done to them. I have always compared social media and the internet being to us what you sometimes see in Sci-Fi were a society gets some kind of technology they are to primitive to handle and end up destroying ourselves. In essence humans are not mature enough or mentally adapt enough to not be fucked up by social media in ways that even tv and radio could never accomplish. AI is really going to put the nail in our coffin once it gets even more advanced.

I agree because emotions are poo-pooed in society. But, that doesn't mean the world is worse; just that humans are better on a smaller scale of community.

Humans also refuse to grow up.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

The political slants of Star Trek have never once taken me out of the narrative and made me think about the present day, I'm aware of them and it can make a scene more impactful but I can still very easily escape into the universe.

I do not use social media, I hate it and always have couldn't delete it fast enough once I left school and didn't have to communicate with anyone. My online presence is mostly to indulge my love of the fiction that means most to me.
If I specifically want the news, I will read the news.

I don't use much social media either. Yet even I am still impacted by it, Often in negative ways. I like to think I am also fairly mature and self reflective but even that doesn't always help. That is just how insidious it all is on our brains.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I must admit while I found the clip not brilliant (I rarely like clips released like that, as that's not really the way it's intended to be seen), I liked the trailer and have been intrigued by the concept for the series.

However, I do feel worn down. I am finding the online debate around this show, especially on reddit but everywhere really, to be very very negative. I have been surprised by this - this kind of hateful fatalism and vindictiveness, a burning contempt that doesn't feel like it's going away.

Of course you find it in many online fanbases, it feels, at the moment. But I don't know how one is meant to navigate it, keep optimistic, remain enthused. And to express positivity, patience, nuance - you get shouted down, ostracized, etc, in some spaces.

I would be surprised how today's negative trek fanbase would have responded to the early previews of TNG's or DS9's mostly difficult first seasons, for example. Of course a different context, a much more limited online culture then (although the preservation of early online chats by Google reveals many similar styles of conversation!)

You know the old saying, 'Hell is other trekkies'. But seriously, the Internet has become unrelenting, toxic, shithole. I'm personally finding that there are less and less spaces online that I want to engage in because people are unrelentingly negative, are unable to use critical thinking or just plain being their worst selves.

Social media encourages people to find unity in hate and division instead of connection and empathy. Anonymity of social media encourages people to indulge in behaviour that they would never exhibit in real life which is sadly intoxicating for some. Online personas have taken on such meaning for people that they'll do anything and say anything for likes, upvotes and engagement even if that comes in the form of spending your entire day hating on a tv show.

The way toxic fans behave is a sad indictment of what they value and who they are as people and to a greater extent what types of behaviour are becoming more valued in society. It's definitely encouraged me to spend less time on line and more time in the real world.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

You know the old saying, 'Hell is other trekkies'. But seriously, the Internet has become unrelenting, toxic, shithole. I'm personally finding that there are less and less spaces online that I want to engage in because people are unrelentingly negative, are unable to use critical thinking or just plain being their worst selves.

Social media encourages people to find unity in hate and division instead of connection and empathy. Anonymity of social media encourages people to indulge in behaviour that they would never exhibit in real life which is sadly intoxicating for some. Online personas have taken on such meaning for people that they'll do anything and say anything for likes, upvotes and engagement even if that comes in the form of spending your entire day hating on a tv show.

The way toxic fans behave is a sad indictment of what they value and who they are as people and to a greater extent what types of behaviour are becoming more valued in society. It's definitely encouraged me to spend less time on line and more time in the real world.

Only thing consistently good on the Internet is Trekbbs,RedLetterMedia,Al Jokes,Feral Historian,Jeremy Jahns, Matt Baume and Patrick H Willems.

 

[eschaton]

Social media as we think of it now didn't really become what is until around 2010 or so. Remember back when the internet was something you would have to sit at a computer desk and access instead of getting it with the touch of a few button on your phone? The internet has become this all consuming thing that people both hate but also are addicted to. It's even sucked in adults.

I spend way less time on social media than years ago. Facebook has become an ad-filled hellscape. Never used Instagram or twitter. I'm on Bluesky, but I mostly just follow people, since no one comments on my post.

I do spend a lot of time with Youtube, which has replaced a lot of my TV watching. There are so many channels with better science documentaries than most of what you can find on networks/streaming.

It also doesn't matter what political side your on. Go on the internet and you will have to deal with a constant steam of people telling you that you suck because your a liberal or conservative. Then do that every day. For many hours a day and for now many,many years. It eventually wears down people and turns them into what we now have in society. Emotionally fatigued cynics that see no real hope in the future. Just more misery. That's why people turn so much to nostalgia or some false hope of making America Great again or really anything that promises change or escape.

Don't get this at all. Everywhere I go online either politics isn't discussed much, or the political debate is civil. I guess I'm just in a bubble?

 

[Set Harth]

You know the old saying, 'Hell is other trekkies'.

It's better in the original Klingon.