Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 4x01 - "Valles Marineris"

[Firebird]

I was glad the western bit was just the cold open, so that assuaged my fears that we were in for an overstuffed story.

The whole 65 million years ago timing for three M-class worlds in the SOL system? And the whole thing is tied together with the convenient explosion causing the Sol System to reset itself? Yeah, scientific nonsense, and doesn't quite help the basis of the script. But hey, dinosaurs, innit?

I did like seeing Ortegas and Una on the Away Team.

Pike's decision at the end felt a little too pat and historically convenient. I don't think it helped his characterization, though.

I kinda think the scope of this story was a bit too large to reckon with in a show like Star Trek. These are some huge implications.

7/10. Time travel gives me a fucking headache.

 

[Trekker4747]

So, here's my question; and I ask this mostly out of ignorance but more conversational.

So, there's a crashed alien ship on Earth, Mars was once populated by a space-faring civilization, Valles Marineris was formed from an attack from another species in our solar system and the asteroid belt is made up of remains of another planet with life on it in our solar system at this time; a piece of it killed the dinosaurs, though current theory says it came from beyond Jupiter.

Wouldn't humanity have seen signs of this by the 23c? Scientists in our own time explore through rock and are able to piece together elements of the past. Even knowing that 65 million years is a certain long enough to erase most or all signs of a civilization in terms of construction, some element could remain. Fossils and many metals.

When humans finally made it to Mars and started setting up civilizations there, they didn't come across any signs? Keeping in mind that by the 23rd century human technology can do a detect quite a bit.

 

[Tosk]

Wouldn't humanity have seen signs of this by the 23c?

Maybe someone cleaned up in the intervening years.

 

[The Wormhole]

So, here's my question; and I ask this mostly out of ignorance but more conversational.

So, there's a crashed alien ship on Earth, Mars was once populated by a space-faring civilization, Valles Marineris was formed from an attack and asteroid belt is made up from some of the remains of another planet with life on it in our solar system (and current theory says it came from beyond Jupiter.)

Wouldn't humanity have seen signs of this by the 23c? Scientists in our own time explore through rock and are able to piece together elements of the past, but even knowing that 65 million years is a certain long enough to erase all signs of a civilization in terms of construction, but some element could remain. Fossils and many metals. Whe humans finally made it to Mars and started setting up civilizations there, they didn't come across any signs? Keeping in mind that by the 23rd century human technology can do a detect quite a bit.

I imagine this might be the part in a Pitch Meeting video where Writer Guy says "I'm going to need you to get all the way off my back about this."

 

[Campe]

Im only 15 minutes in and yeah I feel about the same. More feely stuff with Spock and La' an and than she goes off and stuns a dinosaur without permission. Yeah the cgi is not great. Everything has a brown haze. Ugh.

Okay.

God forbid relations happen on a ship.
Whose permission? The dinosaur’s?
Were you watching on your phone?

 

[Trekker4747]

I think the premise is still fantastic, but because of how acting has changed, the romance between Kirk and Edith doesn't feel as solid as it should any longer.

I was born more than ten years after the episode was made, but somehow I can switch my brain to "1960s TV" mode, watch this, and feel Kirk's pain when he has to restrain McCoy from rescuing Edith, clutches at the wall as Spock says he knows what he did. Then just how he gruffs to tell the ship to get him the "hell out of here" as The Guardian offers more trips.

Heck, I even see McCoy's pain and I don't think it's entirely from it just being a death. It was her death. We'd already seen him fall for her.

So, I don't know. For me it remains the best episode of the entire 60-year-old franchise.

 

[Trekker4747]

I imagine this might be the part in a Pitch Meeting video where Writer Guy says "I'm going to need you to get all the way off my back about this."

You win the Internet from me tonight. This is going to be a fun season.

 

[The Wormhole]

Whose permission? The dinosaur’s?

It's only polite to stun a dinosaur with its consent.

 

[Trekker4747]

Proof read and edited. I'm laying on my side, holding my head up and typing on a tablet with one hand. It reacts slower than I type, I type slower than I think and I'm high.

 

[FredH]

I kinda think the scope of this story was a bit too large to reckon with in a show like Star Trek. These are some huge implications.

See, whatever one thinks about the particular execution here, big-scope implications like this are exactly what I like to see Star Trek wrestle with!

 

[KennyB]

Enjoyed it......not a classic but solid......hate we have so few left.

 

[Ketrick]

So, here's my question; and I ask this mostly out of ignorance but more conversational.

So, there's a crashed alien ship on Earth, Mars was once populated by a space-faring civilization, Valles Marineris was formed from an attack from another species in our solar system and the asteroid belt is made up of remains of another planet with life on it in our solar system at this time; a piece of it killed the dinosaurs, though current theory says it came from beyond Jupiter.

Wouldn't humanity have seen signs of this by the 23c? Scientists in our own time explore through rock and are able to piece together elements of the past. Even knowing that 65 million years is a certain long enough to erase most or all signs of a civilization in terms of construction, some element could remain. Fossils and many metals.

When humans finally made it to Mars and started setting up civilizations there, they didn't come across any signs? Keeping in mind that by the 23rd century human technology can do a detect quite a bit.

Considering that some of the Martians survived and contributed to the DNA of other species (probably Vulcans, Debrune, Romulans, Remans, Rigelians, and possibly Sargon’s species), it is likely that they would have taken as much as they could with them. Furthermore, the Voth or their ancestors may have scavenged anything they could find and there may have been others who scavenged in the millions of years between then and the 23rd Century thus eliminating most of the evidence for past civilizations in this solar system. This is not to say that there couldn’t be some evidence left but it is unlikely that there would have been enough to make a strong case.

 

[cooleddie74]

Most artificial and constructed objects won't last 65 million years. Metals, plastics, etc. will be long decayed and absorbed into the soil and rock by then.

 

[Finn]

The Voth is definitely long gone.

 

[Tuskin38]

Okay.

God forbid relations happen on a ship.
Whose permission? The dinosaur’s?
Were you watching on your phone?

Don't bother interacting with them.

 

[Verteron]

Yeah the cgi is not great. Everything has a brown haze. Ugh.

This is a really good point. It's incredibly obvious that the planet-based shots in this episode were just three actors standing in front of a green screen or in that AR wall thingy they sometimes use.

 

[Trekker4747]

Most artificial and constructed objects won't last 65 million years. Metals, plastics, etc. will be long decayed and absorbed into the soil and rock by then.

And here is where I plea my ignorance. But "absorbed into the rock" how? You examine a layer of rock and you find large patches of elements in it and you form logical explanation for it. The problem I have is when I think of it millions of years when an alloy is broken down into atoms that means you don't have a large patch of just iron. You find an odd combination of various metals that when combined form a specific stronger metal. Get what I'm saying?

Our own scientists can piece together events on planet based on certain materials in a rock wall representing millions of years of history. Starfleet can't detect a 64 million year old patch of stainless steel?

 

[Finn]

Eh? Better than obvious reuses of the same sets on TNG. I recently went through Season three, and I recognized the same set in two or three episodes....

 

[KennyB]

Getting a bit tired of Vulcans always being rude, dismissive, assholes. They're supposed to be humanity's closest/best friends in the relationship that leads to the Federation. Why are they always jackasses?

That sounds very much "human" to me..........

 

[cooleddie74]

And here is where I plea my ignorance. But "absorbed into the rock" how? You examine a layer of rock and you find large patches of elements in it and you form logical explanation for it. The problem I have is when I think of it millions of years when an alloy is broken down into atoms that means you don't have a large patch of just iron. You find an odd combination of various metals that when combined form a specific stronger metal. Get what I'm saying?

Our own scientists can piece together events on planet based on certain materials in a rock wall representing millions of years of history. Starfleet can't detect a 64 million year old patch of stainless steel?

I'm no scientist, but eventually the object breaks down into its elements and is reabsorbed into nature. The soil. Forming rock layers. The water. The air. Erosion and the passage of time make pretty much anything that isn't solid rock doomed to disappear, and even rock eventually vanishes if you wait long enough. Dust to dust.

Plus, it's Star Trek. Scientists always miss something important, because needs of plot.