I would be OK with the Wormhole aliens and the Pah-Wraith being some sort of proto Q or side shoot. Some will cry small universe syndrome but I think it could be inriging.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x05 - "Through the Lens of Time"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I would be OK with the Wormhole aliens and the Pah-Wraith being some sort of proto Q or side shoot. Some will cry small universe syndrome but I think it could be inriging.
Thought of this one, and Ent's 'The Crossing'. And the Pah wraiths...
Star wars has much better continuity with all its live action series and film that Star trek does with its. Both written and visual.
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So I rewatched this one tonight, and I'm not going to reiterate everything everyone has said about it already. On first watch, I did like this episode bc of it's horror elements as well as the advancing character arcs, and after rewatching and before grading it, I have a few points to make:
1) So once Gamble was attacked, Christine and La'an took him outside to be beamed up and then came back. The rest of the landing party was inside. So the only reason N'Jal was killed was because he tried to exit by himself? Okay. Got it. I'd actually missed that during my first bleary-eyed watch early Thursday morning. I kept thinking "how'd they get him out?!"
2) I liked that little look Christine gave La'an and then Spock when they were all talking about the "preservers" theory and La'an said "fascinating!" See, I like those little moments and... er, glances
And aww now when I see Gamble in all his fresh-faced innocence breathe "ancient astronauts!!!" my heart weeps a bit. About that, I really don't think we've seen the last of this character. Whether or not they follow up on the last scene, he's too good to let go. But what do I know? I'm just an OG Trekkie who's used to too many great guest characters meet their deaths never to be heard from again.
3) So when N'Jal speaks, he/she speaks in his language and Uhura translates, but when the landing party speak, he/she is able to understand them? I don't see Uhura translating to him. So I take it he either knows Standard, or the UT is translating one way. Okay... just checking here. I am not quite up on how the UT is supposed to work at this point in the Prime Timeline.
4) Gamble's injury/death happened right around 20mins in...
5) When I was first watching it, I remember thinking that when Dr. M'Benga was examining Gamble's fingers and they looked kinda dark blue/gray/black... that that's not a good thing that his extremities seem to have turned darker. I now realize that meant he had already died by that point. *shivers* the horror/horrific moments on this show were really, SNEAKILY well done.
6) Spock has read Alice in Wonderland... I now want to rewatch Shore Leave LOL.
7) How did an unbroken sentient sphere get into engineering? Who brought it aboard? I must have missed that part.
8) I understand a lot of folks did like the previous episode. I did not. THIS episode is precisely the reason why I did not like that one. To a writer like me, little things can mean a lot. This episode adds to the lore of TOS. It gets Spock back on his perceptive yet logical feet and able to establish a solid, tensile working bond with Christine; it shows why without Christine Chapel's ability to restrain Dr. Korby's innate curiosity for the unknown, he made such a life-changing error. And we now realize that Dr. M'Benga may have had an increasingly difficult emotional journey as the CMO aboard the Enterprise... something that may have led him on to a different path altogether. ALL that is meat & potatoes to an O Trekkie like me, and though I am still unsure as to whether SNW is Prime Timeline, as the series progresses, I am sure that this particular episode may well be considered part of the stream that seats SNW firmly inside the Prime Timeline.
8) As an OG Phile (original X-Files fan), I always loved the MOTWs (Monster-of-the-week) episodes more and gave them a lot of rewatches over the years. My Trek journey has been very different, but when Trek makes a true horror (and at times horrific) episode, I am there every step of the way.
Grade: 10
1) So once Gamble was attacked, Christine and La'an took him outside to be beamed up and then came back. The rest of the landing party was inside. So the only reason N'Jal was killed was because he tried to exit by himself? Okay. Got it. I'd actually missed that during my first bleary-eyed watch early Thursday morning. I kept thinking "how'd they get him out?!"
2) I liked that little look Christine gave La'an and then Spock when they were all talking about the "preservers" theory and La'an said "fascinating!" See, I like those little moments and... er, glances
And aww now when I see Gamble in all his fresh-faced innocence breathe "ancient astronauts!!!" my heart weeps a bit. About that, I really don't think we've seen the last of this character. Whether or not they follow up on the last scene, he's too good to let go. But what do I know? I'm just an OG Trekkie who's used to too many great guest characters meet their deaths never to be heard from again. 3) So when N'Jal speaks, he/she speaks in his language and Uhura translates, but when the landing party speak, he/she is able to understand them? I don't see Uhura translating to him. So I take it he either knows Standard, or the UT is translating one way. Okay... just checking here. I am not quite up on how the UT is supposed to work at this point in the Prime Timeline.
4) Gamble's injury/death happened right around 20mins in...
5) When I was first watching it, I remember thinking that when Dr. M'Benga was examining Gamble's fingers and they looked kinda dark blue/gray/black... that that's not a good thing that his extremities seem to have turned darker. I now realize that meant he had already died by that point. *shivers* the horror/horrific moments on this show were really, SNEAKILY well done.
6) Spock has read Alice in Wonderland... I now want to rewatch Shore Leave LOL.
7) How did an unbroken sentient sphere get into engineering? Who brought it aboard? I must have missed that part.
8) I understand a lot of folks did like the previous episode. I did not. THIS episode is precisely the reason why I did not like that one. To a writer like me, little things can mean a lot. This episode adds to the lore of TOS. It gets Spock back on his perceptive yet logical feet and able to establish a solid, tensile working bond with Christine; it shows why without Christine Chapel's ability to restrain Dr. Korby's innate curiosity for the unknown, he made such a life-changing error. And we now realize that Dr. M'Benga may have had an increasingly difficult emotional journey as the CMO aboard the Enterprise... something that may have led him on to a different path altogether. ALL that is meat & potatoes to an O Trekkie like me, and though I am still unsure as to whether SNW is Prime Timeline, as the series progresses, I am sure that this particular episode may well be considered part of the stream that seats SNW firmly inside the Prime Timeline.
8) As an OG Phile (original X-Files fan), I always loved the MOTWs (Monster-of-the-week) episodes more and gave them a lot of rewatches over the years. My Trek journey has been very different, but when Trek makes a true horror (and at times horrific) episode, I am there every step of the way.
Grade: 10
I took screenshots of them both last night so I could compare them, once I get off work today I'll maybe see about getting the episode 5 screenshot hosted somewhere so I can post it here too.
Edited to add the screenshots I took:
Maybe it's HIS version of the Vezda. His particular boogeyman. Something the 10-year old Spock saw when Sarek showed him an old Vulcan horror classic.
Then go watch Star Wars.
With respect to the Sphere they used to capture the entity; when they were talking about and the scans of the Spere, they had the remains of it on board, so I assume Scotty and Pelia found a way to repair it; because even though it was never stated by her openly, she probably thought they would need it.So I rewatched this one tonight, and I'm not going to reiterate everything everyone has said about it already. On first watch, I did like this episode bc of it's horror elements as well as the advancing character arcs, and after rewatching and before grading it, I have a few points to make:
1) So once Gamble was attacked, Christine and La'an took him outside to be beamed up and then came back. The rest of the landing party was inside. So the only reason N'Jal was killed was because he tried to exit by himself? Okay. Got it. I'd actually missed that during my first bleary-eyed watch early Thursday morning. I kept thinking "how'd they get him out?!"
2) I liked that little look Christine gave La'an and then Spock when they were all talking about the "preservers" theory and La'an said "fascinating!" See, I like those little moments and... er, glances
3) So when N'Jal speaks, he/she speaks in his language and Uhura translates, but when the landing party speak, he/she is able to understand them? I don't see Uhura translating to him. So I take it he either knows Standard, or the UT is translating one way. Okay... just checking here. I am not quite up on how the UT is supposed to work at this point in the Prime Timeline.
4) Gamble's injury/death happened right around 20mins in...
5) When I was first watching it, I remember thinking that when Dr. M'Benga was examining Gamble's fingers and they looked kinda dark blue/gray/black... that that's not a good thing that his extremities seem to have turned darker. I now realize that meant he had already died by that point. *shivers* the horror/horrific moments on this show were really, SNEAKILY well done.
6) Spock has read Alice in Wonderland... I now want to rewatch Shore Leave LOL.
7) How did an unbroken sentient sphere get into engineering? Who brought it aboard? I must have missed that part.
8) I understand a lot of folks did like the previous episode. I did not. THIS episode is precisely the reason why I did not like that one. To a writer like me, little things can mean a lot. This episode adds to the lore of TOS. It gets Spock back on his perceptive yet logical feet and able to establish a solid, tensile working bond with Christine; it shows why without Christine Chapel's ability to restrain Dr. Korby's innate curiosity for the unknown, he made such a life-changing error. And we now realize that Dr. M'Benga may have had an increasingly difficult emotional journey as the CMO aboard the Enterprise... something that may have led him on to a different path altogether. ALL that is meat & potatoes to an O Trekkie like me, and though I am still unsure as to whether SNW is Prime Timeline, as the series progresses, I am sure that this particular episode may well be considered part of the stream that seats SNW firmly inside the Prime Timeline.
8) As an OG Phile (original X-Files fan), I always loved the MOTWs (Monster-of-the-week) episodes more and gave them a lot of rewatches over the years. My Trek journey has been very different, but when Trek makes a true horror (and at times horrific) episode, I am there every step of the way.
Grade: 10
Star Wars also has a lot less overall hours of films and episodes produced to date; and while visually I will agree with you, on the written end no, sorry, even with the limited number of hours Star Wars written continuity isn't better than Star Trek's.
Fans love to claim this but it's just not true and I've already listed plenty of examples previously when others have tried to compare Star Wars written continuity with Star Trek.
Star Wars never really gave a satisfactory answer as to how Darth Maul survived Naboo, nor how Gregor survived being blown up. They even lampshaded it in a future episode with Gregor quipping that he was blown up once, but never explaining it.
Well, that's later and a comedy. All sorts of stupidity was tossed into TVH for the sake of "it's a romp."
Having said that....I've gotten to the point of ignoring all of that stuff, especially when it comes to TOS and modern Trek because the original series was a 60's TV show trying to find its way. Nobody was world building to support a franchise lasting 60+ years. So I let things go now like Spock's first command in "The Galileo Seven" (which was iffy even then) or the first time Spock performed a mind meld in front of a non Vulcan was in "Dagger of the Mind" or regrowing eyes and limbs when we had a guy with a half masked face in "The Conscience of the King." And the very real implication that Spock and Chapel never had a relationship. If an episode of SNW doesn't land for me, then it's based whether I like the story or the delivery. TOS was the original and my favorite but I'm past expecting an official production to adhere to 60's standards. And Paramount can say this is canon all they want, I'll either accept it or I won't. It's all fiction so it's meaningless, none of it actually happened. TOS is a passion of mine. The rest are all spinoffs that I either like or don't, accept or don't. I will say I accept sequels faster than prequels for my own reasons.
This episode really landed for me. It wasn't stunningly original but it hit the right notes. I don't like Carol Kane in anything, but even her weirdly timed end of the episode joke worked because it called back to the inappropriate jokes at the end of episodes where like a star system was destroyed or 7 guys died just minutes earlier.
Less Overall hours yes. But with today's technology it's easy to research this stuff then ever before. Writers have a virtual encyclopedia at their fingertips. But They are probably intentionally breaking continuity.
Well then why did Data have to tell him he could recreate the TOS bridge on the Holodeck? That is what he told the computer when he went to the Holodeck. As a pioneer in the technology he should only have been told they "we have a Holodeck here that you helped pioneer. Go nuts."
The only reason I can think of for the ruin being some kind of weird labyrinth split into different dimensions was that it was like creating a native environment for the Vezda (which are extra dimensional creatures) to exist, but also to contain them and prevent them from escaping. I don't think normal methods of containment would be sufficient.I’m glad to see the majority of people seem to have liked this one, but for whatever reason it didn’t really work for me. And if this trend continues this might just shape up to be my least favorite season of the show yet. With half the season already behind us, I only liked episode one, loved episode three, and didn’t really enjoy the other three.
What I did like were some of the horror elements with Gamble (whose name was finally uttered after he was already halfway dead), but overall there were just too many moments that left me kind of baffled. What was the point of the scene where they discuss whether or not to take a couple of steps outside the ruin through the still open door visible behind them to report back to the ship, have them decide to not do that, only to then have them step outside after all in the very next scene! Uhm, what?
Or what was the whole concept of them existing in the same room but different planes of existence (or whatever) all about that didn’t really lead anywhere? And you’d think the writers would use the team being split up (in what seemed like very deliberate groups) to bring some of the conflicts to the fore, but no, there wasn’t really anything.
In the end I keep wondering what this entire ruin was even about. I know, they hypothesize that it’s some sort of prison. But why then does it have to be some magical labyrinth? Why the whole effect preceding the cause idea? Why did the ruin accept Chapel’s blood? Why did the native get vaporized when the others were fine to leave later on? I know, I know, they don’t have to tell us absolutely everything. But it sure seems like the writers didn’t really have an idea either. Plus, with some of the dialog feeling so clunky, there were moment where I thought I was watching an episode of Discovery.
By the way, I don’t recall, but was the shot from the trailer, where we see all those structures inside the ruin move and collapse (?) in the episode as well? Or was that from a later episode where they revisit the place?
The ruin accepting a persons blood is explained be a sort of security feature. However the rest of the story kind of falls apart for me regarding this. It seems like a really flaky security system. If this ruin is really a prison, why would it need to protect Chapel? It's primary goal should be to contain the prisoners which it did a terrible job of doing by letting Chapel take Gamble out to be transported up to the ship, thereby unleashing a Vezda. Also Chapel could easily become possessed by a Vezda while inside. So then how will the ruin react? Will it still grant Chapel free rein and allow her to enter/exit at will? The only thing that would make sense is the blood is used to detect Chapel and monitor her bio signs. If she become 'dead' like Gamble did when possessed, then the ruins might not let her leave.
What the ruin should be doing is taking a sample of blood from every single person that wants to enter, otherwise deny them entry. That way the ruin can monitor everyone who enters and anyone possessed would be denied exit.
One thing that I also didn't think was explained very well was the magnetic anomaly at the very beginning and it's connection to the ruin. How did they reveal the ruin? Were the deflectors from the ship used to blast the rock away, or were they used to disrupt a magnetic anomaly concealing the ruin? I watched that part twice but it didn't really make sense and wasn't explained clearly.
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It probably would have accepted anybody's, she was just the first person to do it. Nobody else did.
The native was vaporized because the defenses were tuned to accept Chapel because of the blood sample and it allowed people to leave if only they left with her at the same time - possibly in the same order as they entered, as Spock suggested as a precaution, but it may not have been a requirement.
That part was actually explained.
Then go watch Star Wars.
Haha. I do. But come on. We are all nerds here. One sci fi franchise is not enough. I NEED at least a dozen...
Slacker.Haha. I do. But come on. We are all nerds here. One sci fi franchise is not enough. I NEED at least a dozen...
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