My point was that retconning doesn't break canon. What's in canon and what's in continuity are two different things.
Exactly: TOS is canon. I expect it always to be.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x01 - "Hegemony, Part II"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Exactly: TOS is canon. I expect it always to be.
Why does it matter if it's canon or not if it's not in continuity?
Precedent from 100 years later:
NURIA: Liko, all this talk of supernatural beings. No one has believed that for countless generations. Just as we no longer believe the stars control our fates, or the spirits of the dead haunt the living.
PICARD: Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the Dark Ages of superstition and ignorance and fear?
I'm aware there was a chapel for weddings in TOS. Bajorans are deeply spiritual. But humans praying is not very common in the universe we've seen so far. Does the Vatican still exist then? Is there still a pope, and people get baptized, and church law is separate from Federation law, etc.? I don't mind exploring that, but I enjoy sci-fi more than fantasy
People keep talking about going against canon. And that's not actually a thing. Canon's all over the place. It always has been.
There was also mention of a Christmas party. There was a reference on TNG of the Hindu festival of lights. Kassidy Yates stated her mother's preference that she and Sisko be married by a minister rather than a Starfleet Admiral.
I get what you are saying about canon but should it not have a more straightforward continuity?. Don't they kinda work hand in hand?
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Who Watches the Watchers aside, it's been made clear human religions are still very much a thing in the 24th century. In addition to the above references to the Hindu Festival of Lights and Kasidy Yates's mother, Native American Spiritual Beliefs are still practiced in the 24th century as proven with TBG Journey's End and Chakotay, to a certain extent, given they completely bungled that aspect up on Voyager.
As for the Vatican, we know it's still around in the 22nd century, Phlox mentioned in Cold Front that he had attended mass in St. Peter's Square. For that matter, St. Paul's Cathedral is still standing in London in STID, suggesting the Anglican Church is still around in the 23rd century.
I'm pretty sure even if the whole world turns atheist we're not going to start tearing down historical buildings because of it.
And TAS has Spock presenting as a cousin journeying to honor the family gods.
Or perhaps a lapsed practicioner and a soft believer.
Her look could have many interpretations. I'm going with "Oh no, not that bitch." Disbelief? That might be a stretch.
Well there was more to the look. I will have to rewatch it. Can't find any clips of the whole scene.Her look could have many interpretations. I'm going with "Oh no, not that bitch." Disbelief? That might be a stretch.
The Gorn in TOS S1 Arena was an entire race and the Military action they took WELL PLANNED.
A race who as shown in that very episode:
- Per the one Federation survivor came in at Federation "Space Normal Speed" - IE they approached the Base in a standard way known to the Federation (to appear like any other visiting Federation vessel.)
- They then completely wiped out every living thing on the Base itself.
- Had enough information to produce a convincing and 100% FALSE message that specifically brought the USS Enterprise - and the message was sent by the Gorn after their ship had completely wiped out the Base and all Human life two days prior. (Also Kirk mentioned that they probably new his ship was the only one patrolling the sector at the time.)
- Were able to create and carry on a 'Live' conversation between Kirk and a 100% accurate voice recreation of the dead Commadore Travers in real time in the 1701 Transporter room as Kirk, Spock, McCoy and two Tactical officers prepared to beam down. The faked Travers specifically requested Kirk and Co. bring Tactical aides and that he had an "interesting problem" for them.
So yeah, the Gorn in this instance laid a VERY specific trap to test Federation military response and had very detailed info regarding the Federation.
^^^
How did the Gorn got this information because the one Survivor said they blated everything on the base from orbit. How? probably from other Federation ships, crews and colonists they captured/used.
And remember the Survivor said the Base tried to surrender, and told them they had women and children - and it's clear the Gorn understood Federation language as they expertly fake a message and a Live conversation.
^^^
Th Gorn Captain claimed: "We destroyed invaders!..." - but given everything, if they are an intelligent and civilized race, (and unless they had a PRIOR conflict with the Federation where they lost ships and soldiers
) - wiping out a Base with Women and Children that is trying to surrender seems rather 'Monstrous' to me.I actually find the franchise going into religion once in a while interesting. It's actually one of the few aspects of DS9 my wife and I disagree about. (She's religious but does not like the religious aspects of DS9, while I am not religious in the slightest but find it a very interesting aspect of DS9.)
Doesn't change my view that religions have caused far, FAR more problems than be helpful... but seeing STAR TREK dip into that well once in a while can bring out some good material.
As for Picard in "Who Watches The Watchers", I agree with him. But not because of what he said. I agree because the scientist was saying Picard should beam down and pose as the god Liko thinks, in order to get Palmer released. That's just simply dangerous and wrong. This is exactly why the Prime Directive exists (well, one if the big reasons): so people DO NOT play god with a less developed civilization.
Doesn't change my view that religions have caused far, FAR more problems than be helpful... but seeing STAR TREK dip into that well once in a while can bring out some good material.
As for Picard in "Who Watches The Watchers", I agree with him. But not because of what he said. I agree because the scientist was saying Picard should beam down and pose as the god Liko thinks, in order to get Palmer released. That's just simply dangerous and wrong. This is exactly why the Prime Directive exists (well, one if the big reasons): so people DO NOT play god with a less developed civilization.
Its a pretty quick scene. Probably seconds. Her expression is pretty much the same the entire time. I think over the decades fans have inflated what happened. I for one thought there was more to it
It kind of reminded me of a scene in The Big Bang Theory when they're trying to get Comicon tickets and Sheldon gets on his knees and starts to pray but stops immediately when it becomes clear they'll be getting tickets without Jesus interceding on their behalf. Pike seems to be surrendering to his father's faith in such things, not his own, and as soon as Marie stirs he abandons the effort.
Possibly because she couldn't believe he'd gotten hitched and she knew nothing about it. Or that T'Pring hadn't shut that whole thing down long before that point. (But please don't start quoting the episode at me. I know all the lines by heart.)
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Ah right. I got them backwards
Religions wouldnt cease to exist, they would of course have to adapt but theres certainly a difference even today between a person who believes in a deity to burning someone at the stake for saying the Earth revolves around the sun. Humans have long since stopped believing higher beings control them directly and that they must be appeased by very specific behaviours but they might still believe the unanswered mysteries of the universe are divine in nature and believe in an afterlife.Precedent from 100 years later:
NURIA: Liko, all this talk of supernatural beings. No one has believed that for countless generations. Just as we no longer believe the stars control our fates, or the spirits of the dead haunt the living.
PICARD: Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the Dark Ages of superstition and ignorance and fear?
I'm aware there was a chapel for weddings in TOS. Bajorans are deeply spiritual. But humans praying is not very common in the universe we've seen so far. Does the Vatican still exist then? Is there still a pope, and people get baptized, and church law is separate from Federation law, etc.? I don't mind exploring that, but I enjoy sci-fi more than fantasy
Also, there are officers wearing turbans and hijabs on the Cerritos.
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