Let's keep real-world politics for the Lounge Area set aside for such discussions, please.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Let's keep real-world politics for the Lounge Area set aside for such discussions, please.
Amen to that.
I enjoyed the finale, minus it being a cliffhanger.
I'm not a fan of cliffhangers.
The only sour note was streaming issues. Paramount + needs to get their shit together. My streaming dropped multiple times - very frustrating.
I love the new Scotty. He's hard to understand though.
Batel - as expected. Poor lady.
Spock - why is HE apologizing? And when Christine says "we have time," I thought, yeah right, she'll end up having to run for a ship to get to Korby and they'll never have a chance to talk and we all knows that she falls for Korby.
Damn Boimler anyhow.
I enjoyed the finale, minus it being a cliffhanger.
I'm not a fan of cliffhangers.The only sour note was streaming issues. Paramount + needs to get their shit together. My streaming dropped multiple times - very frustrating.
I love the new Scotty. He's hard to understand though.
Batel - as expected. Poor lady.
Spock - why is HE apologizing? And when Christine says "we have time," I thought, yeah right, she'll end up having to run for a ship to get to Korby and they'll never have a chance to talk and we all knows that she falls for Korby.
Damn Boimler anyhow.
Three Andorians...
Three background Andorians in Subspace Rhapsody by Ian McLean, on Flickr
... and a Tellarite.
Tellarite crewman in Subspace Rhapsody by Ian McLean, on Flickr
And a Lanthanite (left):
Pelia, La'An and Spock by Ian McLean, on Flickr
And a now-deceased Aenar:
Hemmer the Aenar by Ian McLean, on Flickr
I did notice that they made a point of showing Scotty's fingers. Didn't notice if he was missing one though, even on a rewind.
I thought it was just us! Very very frustrating.
Ah, the zombie reference!
I just watched this a second time. Just wow! Tension throughout the entire episode. Very, very well done.
Melissa Navia may not get as much to do as the others, but she really makes the most out of every scene. I've seen some posts that call her ability into question because of her asking about the debris, but if you look at her expressions and the way she speaks, it was more her reminding everyone else what's in front of them and she let them say out loud what she was thinking. Also loved her scene with M'Benga with the survivors. And you can tell she just LOVES to be a pilot. And I think that's something we don't see often enough with Starfleet officers... someone who truly loves their job.
Sam Kirk was used well here. He got some redemption by facing his fear and was also instrumental in helping figure out the Gorn's connection with the CMEs.
Una... excellent first officer. Her reminder to everyone about their training was not only to keep them focused on the job, but to remind them that any survivors would be counting on them to know they will try to get a signal through somehow. Level-headed, smart, knows how to get the crew motivated, backs the captain but also not afraid to tell him he's wrong (privately)... I think she may be the best first officer we have ever seen. (TOS Spock still takes the prize, but Una is quickly leapfrogging past the other shows in the XO category.)
Spock... he has NO reason to apologize to Chapel, especially after what happened in last week's episode.
Speaking of Chapel... that was the one thing about this episode that REALLY had glaring plot armor. While the fact she was the only apparent survivor on the Cayuga is already stretching belief, I can let that slide somewhat because any other potential survivors might have been killed by that Gorn attempting to break into the computer. What I find impossible to defend is that somehow, there are pockets of air on a fragment of a destroyed ship? Even taking into account a few forcefields may be in place, how is it getting any power? The ship is destroyed. (Having said this, I do wonder if Starfleet ships are simply sturdier in this era vs. 24th century ships. It also makes me wonder if this was a BEYOND scenario when the Enterprise was getting taken apart piece by piece.)
Speaking of the Gorn, I love that we got different types in the same episode. We have the feral, young ones and we have an intelligent one trying to access the ship's computer. Clearly, this was to show that the Gorn in "ARENA" did indeed know a lot about Starfleet and their protocols to fool Kirk in TOS. (While this Gorn didn't succeed, this episode illustrates they are trying to get intelligence on Starfleet... and a future Gorn succeeded.) I also like how the adult Gorn looked... reminded me of a reptilian version of the Scarrans from FARSCAPE. (Now THAT was a cool looking alien race.)
I agree that ALIEN is used as a template for SNW's Gorn (the Batel scene was lifted right out of ALIEN 3), but I like this. It shows that this race is very different from what the Federation usually deals with. We also have precedence for there being multiple types of the same species... the Xindi on ENT. It is called the Gorn HEGEMONY. Also, as a horror fan, this brings a sense of terror and danger to the Gorn that you rarely get with other villains. The last time I felt a species was this terrifying was the Vidiians. So I'm glad SNW is fleshing out the Gorn.
As soon as that Gorn went to Batel's face, I knew she was infected. She is a goner, and I figured her days were numbered earlier this season.
Pike... we got our man of action back. Though the final scene sort of shows him losing that edge again. Obviously, this is because it's a cliffhanger.
I do like how SNW does maintain continuity within itself, even if I don't like the continuity it maintains. (The musical episode reference in the beginning. Oh, boy...)
Okay, Scotty... they didn't need to introduce him now. We already had Jim Kirk, and this seems to be Paramount hedging their bets and getting a TOS reboot right after SNW finishes however long a run it gets. Having said that, I like Martin Quinn's take on him. And the fact Pelia thought he was an excellent student with the worst grades... somehow fits perfectly. I can see him advancing from Lt. junior grade to Lt. Commander by the time Kirk takes command. That's about 7 years away... certainly reasonable.
This episode delivered a great season finale. And while it borrowed heavily from the ALIEN franchise, the execution was very well done. Despite my nitpicks about Chapel's ridiculous plot armor, this kept me at the edge of my seat the entire time. My wife and I both gave this a 9.5, which on the voting scale here rounds up to a 10. I kind of missed the season ending cliffhangers of the old days, but I do think they would be better served on a series that has more than just 10 episodes.
Melissa Navia may not get as much to do as the others, but she really makes the most out of every scene. I've seen some posts that call her ability into question because of her asking about the debris, but if you look at her expressions and the way she speaks, it was more her reminding everyone else what's in front of them and she let them say out loud what she was thinking. Also loved her scene with M'Benga with the survivors. And you can tell she just LOVES to be a pilot. And I think that's something we don't see often enough with Starfleet officers... someone who truly loves their job.
Sam Kirk was used well here. He got some redemption by facing his fear and was also instrumental in helping figure out the Gorn's connection with the CMEs.
Una... excellent first officer. Her reminder to everyone about their training was not only to keep them focused on the job, but to remind them that any survivors would be counting on them to know they will try to get a signal through somehow. Level-headed, smart, knows how to get the crew motivated, backs the captain but also not afraid to tell him he's wrong (privately)... I think she may be the best first officer we have ever seen. (TOS Spock still takes the prize, but Una is quickly leapfrogging past the other shows in the XO category.)
Spock... he has NO reason to apologize to Chapel, especially after what happened in last week's episode.
Speaking of Chapel... that was the one thing about this episode that REALLY had glaring plot armor. While the fact she was the only apparent survivor on the Cayuga is already stretching belief, I can let that slide somewhat because any other potential survivors might have been killed by that Gorn attempting to break into the computer. What I find impossible to defend is that somehow, there are pockets of air on a fragment of a destroyed ship? Even taking into account a few forcefields may be in place, how is it getting any power? The ship is destroyed. (Having said this, I do wonder if Starfleet ships are simply sturdier in this era vs. 24th century ships. It also makes me wonder if this was a BEYOND scenario when the Enterprise was getting taken apart piece by piece.)
Speaking of the Gorn, I love that we got different types in the same episode. We have the feral, young ones and we have an intelligent one trying to access the ship's computer. Clearly, this was to show that the Gorn in "ARENA" did indeed know a lot about Starfleet and their protocols to fool Kirk in TOS. (While this Gorn didn't succeed, this episode illustrates they are trying to get intelligence on Starfleet... and a future Gorn succeeded.) I also like how the adult Gorn looked... reminded me of a reptilian version of the Scarrans from FARSCAPE. (Now THAT was a cool looking alien race.)
I agree that ALIEN is used as a template for SNW's Gorn (the Batel scene was lifted right out of ALIEN 3), but I like this. It shows that this race is very different from what the Federation usually deals with. We also have precedence for there being multiple types of the same species... the Xindi on ENT. It is called the Gorn HEGEMONY. Also, as a horror fan, this brings a sense of terror and danger to the Gorn that you rarely get with other villains. The last time I felt a species was this terrifying was the Vidiians. So I'm glad SNW is fleshing out the Gorn.
As soon as that Gorn went to Batel's face, I knew she was infected. She is a goner, and I figured her days were numbered earlier this season.
Pike... we got our man of action back. Though the final scene sort of shows him losing that edge again. Obviously, this is because it's a cliffhanger.
I do like how SNW does maintain continuity within itself, even if I don't like the continuity it maintains. (The musical episode reference in the beginning. Oh, boy...)
Okay, Scotty... they didn't need to introduce him now. We already had Jim Kirk, and this seems to be Paramount hedging their bets and getting a TOS reboot right after SNW finishes however long a run it gets. Having said that, I like Martin Quinn's take on him. And the fact Pelia thought he was an excellent student with the worst grades... somehow fits perfectly. I can see him advancing from Lt. junior grade to Lt. Commander by the time Kirk takes command. That's about 7 years away... certainly reasonable.
This episode delivered a great season finale. And while it borrowed heavily from the ALIEN franchise, the execution was very well done. Despite my nitpicks about Chapel's ridiculous plot armor, this kept me at the edge of my seat the entire time. My wife and I both gave this a 9.5, which on the voting scale here rounds up to a 10. I kind of missed the season ending cliffhangers of the old days, but I do think they would be better served on a series that has more than just 10 episodes.
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"Another big part of my disdain for this finale is my general lack of interest in this incredibly derivative, boring, and contradictory iteration of the Gorn ... they have continued to inexplicably piss all over the original series’ 'Arena,' and done so in the service of making the Gorn spectacularly boring and turning them into an Alien/Predator knockoff. It’s especially frustrating because it’s not necessary. They could’ve created a new species, or used another established species we know very little about (my original suggestion last year was the Tzenkethi, and I stand by that, as they’d plug in perfectly here). Instead, they decided to contradict one of the quintessential Trek episodes in 'Arena,' and contravene the entire point of that episode by turning the Gorn into irredeemable monsters."
-KRAD, The Final Arbiter of Ultimate Truth
-KRAD, The Final Arbiter of Ultimate Truth
Actually, they beamed a salve onto his eye.
It's worth noting "Scotty" has all his fingers. They tried to conceal his missing finger or use stand-ins for hand shots. I mean there are slips and mistakes but a far as I know Scotty was never said to be missing a finger.
"As he’s placing explosives, we see Chapel waking up, surrounded by bodies, and trying to get Spock’s attention when he happens by the window she’s near to place more explosives. This was the point at which the episode totally lost me and never really got me back. Let’s start with the fact that Chapel survived. This means there are probably other survivors. The fact that nobody even considered this as a possibility is despicable. The fact that nobody (not Chapel, not Spock, not Number One, not anybody) thought to even try to find out if there were any survivors is a level of depravity wholly unworthy of the protagonists of a Star Trek show. But hey, they’re just extras who don’t have speaking parts and whose names we don’t know, right? They don’t count! The fact that the only survivor of the Cayuga being blown to smithereens is the one in the opening credits has already cut off the air supply to my disbelief. As has the fact that her ex-boyfriend happens to fly right by her window. And then they get into a fight with a Gorn who’s poking around the debris for reasons the script never bothers to provide, except to give us a Big! Action! Scene! in an episode that already had plenty of those. Oh, and the pathos of Spock finding out that Chapel is alive and him saving her and them coming back to Enterprise together all cute."
-KRAD, The Final Arbiter of Ultimate Truth
-KRAD, The Final Arbiter of Ultimate Truth
I wouldn't even be suspecting this if it weren't for the fact that Batel isn't around when Pike has his accident.
I mean, of COURSE the character was decades away from being created, but the fact remains...the love of Pike's life, and she's not there when he needs her most? What's that about?
There are no Gorn continuity issues. And story beats canon. But it doesn't have to because... There are no Gorn continuity issues.
Damn skippy. All of this. Can this be pinned someplace?
Yeah, I took it as dramatic effect. No way "in real life" that he takes this long to decide.
I have to say, for whatever I might like / not like about this episode I was in no way watching the clock. So the "To be continued" caught me out of nowhere.
Of course she is. She's just run out to get him a slushy. Or she's a commodore someplace and checks in on the regular. Or Pike has said he doesn't want her there just like he said he didn't want to see Kirk and Spock.
TV shows us very very tiny slices of these people's lives. (Yup. Spock ABSOLUTELY could have had a foster sister. Damn it.)
You could argue their points instead of just implying an insult. They do post here.
The Moment Cassiday Yates said that her brother had a baseball team on Cestus III, it was only logical that there's at least one Gorn team in the league, and that that team showed an extreme persistence to show up to every game, even though they play ball in slow motion.
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Pretty sure Tuvix agrees with KRAD, not insulting them. Just Based on their past opinions on New Trek.
There is a subset of the fanbase with a bizarre fixation/belief that any references to the past are bad because it demonstrates a lack of innovation or creativity and it's "relying on nostalgia," which is automatically bad because.....well, they dont' feel it or care about so one else should. Then they say "it's fine in small doses/when it's done well/not the central focus, etc." but then complain in a case like this where a legacy character just shows up. The plot doesn't revolve around it, there really aren't any weird gymnastics involved, he just is there. It could have been any character, but there is a plausible case that it could be Scotty, so that's who they used. Then, the criticism is "small universe syndrome!" but that fails to consider the business case, which is that studios want to build buzz and the return of a beloved legacy character is a great way to do that. Then, they say "but then the audience will never grow!!!" but forget they're watching a prequel show with a bunch of characters from 1966 or whatever, with a predetermined general path for the setting/universe and the characters in it, so what do you expect? Then they say, "hey, I'm allowed my opinions, IDIC, right? Also you're wrong." And around and around we go..........
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