Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x02 - "Ad Astra Per Aspera"

[Phily B]

Is Data a real person allowed to leave Starfleet vs. Is Una a real person allowed to serve in Starfleet.

There's a big difference, which is why the episode largely fell flat when compared to the classics. Starfleet had some legitimate concerns due to the history of genetic modifications (though they seem fine with magical super serum), eugenics, the millions that had died in said war and they win on a technicality, while with Data there wasn't really a technicality, they created more than enough doubt over that, they were dealing in theoretical. I doubt if androids had done what genetically modified citizens had done in the past, that trial would not have gone down like that. In fact we see that in Picard S1 when they're targets of discrimination because of their involvement in the Mars stuff (though again, it was poorly done and stupid imo but its another show).

If you expand this to an allegory about trans or homosexuals or whatever they were going for, then it gets even worse when you think about it.

 

[Mudd]

There's a big difference, which is why the episode largely fell flat when compared to the classics. Starfleet had some legitimate concerns...

Nope. Just bigotry.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There's a big difference, which is why the episode largely fell flat when compared to the classics. Starfleet had some legitimate concerns due to the history of genetic modifications (though they seem fine with magical super serum), eugenics, the millions that had died in said war and they win on a technicality, while with Data there wasn't really a technicality, they created more than enough doubt over that, they were dealing in theoretical. I doubt if androids had done what genetically modified citizens had done in the past, that trial would not have gone down like that. In fact we see that in Picard S1 when they're targets of discrimination because of their involvement in the Mars stuff (though again, it was poorly done and stupid imo but its another show).

If you expand this to an allegory about trans or homosexuals or whatever they were going for, then it gets even worse when you think about it.

The real difference is that in SNW, they actually had lawyers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Una was reviewing her spices on file in season, and there was clip art of the Ilyrians from Enterprise. I didn't see this, but it was mentioned in the thread yesterday. There's also a comic book that references it.

She’s out of cumin and oregano.

 

[dswynne1]

Its not really Islam, its sources tend to ve cultural. The Quran does not demand female circumcision, even male circumcision is more of a suggestion then a religious rule.

In countries were it is practiced its often practiced by Christians too.

Actually, it is more based on the hadith, religious interpretation of the Quran, and sunnah, apocryphal interpretations of the Prophet himself, than anything else. The Quran does promote the idea of "cleanliness", which is why many Islamic countries do allow for both male and female circumcision. Of course, some sects of Islam are more dogmatic about it than others, but you can find that in any religion.

As for the Christian interpretation: same thing. While Christian traditions piggy-back the Jewish ones, the apostle Paul, in the New Testament, explicitly states that non-Jews do not have to embrace all aspects of Judaism in order to be Christian, even though Jesus of Nazareth was Jewish himself. But, still, idea of circumcision as a form of cleanliness is a real thing, which has filtered into the medical field (why baby boys in the West are automatically circumcised unless the parents forbids it). In fact, there is a push to end male circumcision altogether, since an actual medical examination of the practice deems it unnecessary.

On a side note, it's interesting certain practices within religion was done to maintain social cohesion of a society, including so-called medical and dietary practices (like how pork is seen as unclean thanks how pigs were raised, when, based on modern style farming practices, pork is now better than eating beef; healthier too, depending upon the cut.

 

[Guy Gardener]

A common myth in popular culture states that Kellogg is responsible for the widespread prevalence of circumcision in the United States. This is not accurate, as Kellogg never promoted routine circumcision of all males in his writings; rather, only men who were chronically addicted to masturbation.

The Cornflakes guy.

 

[Citiprime]

The Cornflakes guy.

Yep, I believe graham crackers were initially promoted with the same healthy living/diet that was supposed to curb masturbation. Kellogg also believed women whom regularly masturbated should be treated with carbolic acid on their clitoris, or have their clitoris surgically removed.

Kellogg was a Seventh-day Adventist who was married to his wife for 41 years. He believed that, even within marriage that couples could damage their health by having too much sex. He's said to have never consummated his marriage.

 

[Hythlodeus]

He's said to have never consummated his marriage.

this is the kind of religious fundamentalist that I like. one that doesn't reproduce

 

[cooleddie74]

The Cornflakes guy.

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[Tuskin38]

The tablet we saw Una's court record on was actually more interactive than we saw in the episode
https://twitter.com/timothypeel1/status/1674104339735134208

 

[UssGlenn]

Una was reviewing her species on file in season, and there was clip art of the Ilyrians from Enterprise. I didn't see this, but it was mentioned in the thread yesterday. There's also a comic book that references it.

Not quite, one of the images Una looked at showed similar features to the Ent Illirians, but there was no picture of the aliens from that episode. So they deliberately left it vague.

 

[Pauln6]

Not quite, one of the images Una looked at showed similar features to the Ent Illirians, but there was no picture of the aliens from that episode. So they deliberately left it vague.

Maybe human looking ones are the norm and the others were augmented?

 

[Noname Given]

"An affinity for Gilbert and Sullivan musicals."

Yetide Badaki as Neera Ketoul was excellent. She's a fine actress.

This episode has a bit of the Data trial episode "The Measure of a Man" feel to it.

If you want to know what it really Harkens back to, and takes most of its cues from, you might want to go watch TOS S1 Court Martial.

 

[mattman8907]

The tablet we saw Una's court record on was actually more interactive than we saw in the episode
https://twitter.com/timothypeel1/status/1674104339735134208

So we learn quite a lot from her service record:

• She served on Four starfleet vessels prior to being assigned to the USS Enterprise as Captain April's science officer.
• Two of those four vessels are vessels that her future CO Christopher Pike served on as well before he was assigned to the Enterprise as well (the USS Antares and the USS Chatelet.)
• Her serial number is SHO426-0523CMS
  

 

[Omegaphallic]

Actually, it is more based on the hadith, religious interpretation of the Quran, and sunnah, apocryphal interpretations of the Prophet himself, than anything else. The Quran does promote the idea of "cleanliness", which is why many Islamic countries do allow for both male and female circumcision. Of course, some sects of Islam are more dogmatic about it than others, but you can find that in any religion.

As for the Christian interpretation: same thing. While Christian traditions piggy-back the Jewish ones, the apostle Paul, in the New Testament, explicitly states that non-Jews do not have to embrace all aspects of Judaism in order to be Christian, even though Jesus of Nazareth was Jewish himself. But, still, idea of circumcision as a form of cleanliness is a real thing, which has filtered into the medical field (why baby boys in the West are automatically circumcised unless the parents forbids it). In fact, there is a push to end male circumcision altogether, since an actual medical examination of the practice deems it unnecessary.

On a side note, it's interesting certain practices within religion was done to maintain social cohesion of a society, including so-called medical and dietary practices (like how pork is seen as unclean thanks how pigs were raised, when, based on modern style farming practices, pork is now better than eating beef; healthier too, depending upon the cut.

I'm an MRA so I'm one of the folks pushing to end the practice, but I've been thinking that the approach can't be worse then the practice itself, like it can't be done in a way that's heavy handed, it not use trading one wrong for another, by tearing families and communities apart and maybe leading to violence on both sides.

I rather compromise with lowest tier mostly symbollic circumcision allowed to maintain that continued sense of tradition and sense of family identity.

Some other MRAs are more anti religion and angier and less interested in diplomatic solutions and compromises that leave both foreskin, families, communities and traditions intact.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Not quite, one of the images Una looked at showed similar features to the Ent Illirians, but there was no picture of the aliens from that episode. So they deliberately left it vague.

Which episode was that? Please and thank you.

 

[UssGlenn]

Which episode was that? Please and thank you.

On the computer screen in "Ghosts of Illyria" the girl with webbed hands also has a V shaped forehead ridge that is reminiscent of the aliens in The Ent episode "Damage" (who don't have webbed hands). But of course the aliens in "Damage " aren't named on screen, Illyrian comes from the script.

 

[Tuskin38]

IIRC Timothy Peel said the ridges were added as a nod to the Ent species

 

[T'Bonz]

I like Una, but this was rather by the numbers. Laid on a bit too thick. I did like Spock grumbling about not liking his father's friend and M'Benga's amusement afterwards. (He called it, didn't he.)

 

[Grizzlor]

10 - This was one of the finest episodes of Star Trek I've seen in eons. This is the reason I BEGGED for Paramount CBS to come back to television and stop making vapid action movies. Yetide (of American Gods fame) was excellent as well. Very much had the TOS/TNG vibe to it.