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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"

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It has just occurred to me how annoying it is that the modern writers think that something heavier than a cruise liner can perform hairpin turns just because it is in space.

I had similar beef with the NuEnterprise doing the same in an atmosphere.

We know from DS9 that a warp field can be used to alter the mass of an object.
 
It has just occurred to me how annoying it is that the modern writers think that something heavier than a cruise liner can perform hairpin turns just because it is in space.

Well do you have any evidence that a warp powered ship with artificial gravity, inertial dampening field, structural integrity field, and various subspace manipulation tools can't?

Ever thought about where Odo's mass goes when he transforms into a lightweight bag someone picks up?
 
It has just occurred to me how annoying it is that the modern writers think that something heavier than a cruise liner can perform hairpin turns just because it is in space.

I had similar beef with the NuEnterprise doing the same in an atmosphere.
This all reminded me of the scenes with the runabout flying around inside the Defiant computer conduits in one Little Ship.
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Well do you have any evidence that a warp powered ship with artificial gravity, inertial dampening field, structural integrity field, and various subspace manipulation tools can't?

Ever thought about where Odo's mass goes when he transforms into a lightweight bag someone picks up?

Exactly. Also the D made some pretty quick moves in the series. Even on encounter at farpoint it made quick turns. Not as quick as what data could do though.
 
Was it *definitely* Janeway’s neurolytic virus that had left the Borg in the state that they were in during this weeks episode? Perhaps it was something else? Another Section 31 intervention against a Federation enemy, it could even be a result of a similar virus as to which Picard sent Hugh back to the Collective with? Another possibility; we know that the Artifact was functioning pretty much as normal up until it assimilated Ramdha and experienced the admonition, ultimately leading to its sub matrix collapse. Could the Admonition have spread throughout the Collective like a virus and have led to further collapse of unimatrixicies and sub matrix shutdown, leading to the remains of the Borg and their Queen as depicted in this weeks episode? Or did the Borg quite literally just cut the artifact off with no further contagion? There is no evidence that the virus inflicting the Borg is a result of Janeways virus, as this was not explicitly stated as it was in the case of the Changelings/Founders virus being caused by Section 31 - it was only ‘loosely’ insinuated with fans filling in the gaps and jumping to conclusions.

Well, the neurolithic pathogen did in fact damage the Borg severely.
It destroyed the Unicomplex in the DQ along with the Queen (who was at the unicomplex), then VOY also blew up the entire TW network.
The main thing here is that the neurolithic pathogen apparently decimated the collective to such a degree where only 1 partly functional cube remained (and it was spreading through the entire Collective).

The Borg also lost the ability to assimilate via nanoprobes it seems (as it was established in Prodigy) and they seemingly also lost their huge capacity for adaptation (with most of the collective gone, this was more or less bound to happen - no massive amount of minds to think about solutions to problems - or at least, their adaptation abilties greatly hinged on their collective minds working as one).
I would imagine they retained the ability to assimilate (albeit in a very limited capacity) and slave people's minds (at least those who wander into dormant vessels), but not as easily as before... they couldn't go and assimilate another planet (because they would have done so by now), and in their weakened state, a small amount of decently powerful ships would be able to easily defeat that cube (if the ENT-D with 37 years old old technology was able to inflict massive damage onto the huge cube and disable its weapons is any indication).
 
Well, the neurolithic pathogen did in fact damage the Borg severely.
It destroyed the Unicomplex in the DQ along with the Queen (who was at the unicomplex), then VOY also blew up the entire TW network.
The main thing here is that the neurolithic pathogen apparently decimated the collective to such a degree where only 1 partly functional cube remained (and it was spreading through the entire Collective).
My interpretation differs from the notion that Janeway completely obliterated the transwarp network, but it's definite that significant and game changing damage was inflicted upon it. In regards to the neurolytic virus and it’s effects on the Collective after the results of Endgame, the term "decimate" historically signifies a reduction of 1/10th in efficacy or capacity, rather than reducing something to 1/10th. Therefore, if the Borg Collective truly suffered a decimation, they would have been functioning at 90% of their previous capabilities, not reduced to 10%.
The Borg also lost the ability to assimilate via nanoprobes it seems (as it was established in Prodigy) and they seemingly also lost their huge capacity for adaptation
If the Neurolytic virus did indeed affect the entire remaining Borg Collective in this way, then it seems as though the Collective has effectively been made ‘sterile’ or ‘neutered’ through the rendering of nano probes as ineffective. However, it raises the question as to why the Artifact was not similarly affected by the neurolytic virus, as this ship appeared to be functioning normally before its sub matrix collapse as a result of experiencing the Admonition.

I also think that the cube in Prodigy’s Let Sleeping Borg Lie was pretty much unscathed from the neurolytic virus once reactivated, Borg nano probes may not have been mentioned in order not to scare or confuse kids too much? Just because something is not mentioned though, it does not mean that it is not there.

**EDIT**
The Borg Diamond ship at the end of Endgame had adapted to the neuroleptic virus, btw. I just remembered. I think that it wanted to assimilate Voyager… with nano probes.

We have no solid onscreen clarification about all of this really, perhaps we will find out one day in a spin-off or streaming movie. :)
 
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True, but that doesn't mean that the Enterprise-J won't be in the one that does. It could just be a case that there won't be Sphere-Builders and a Battle of Procyon V for her to fight.

No it doesn't, but if it does exist, it could be a later letter, or be named something else entirely.

We're not beholden to the J being THAT ship in THAT point in time anymore than we were the D getting a third nacelle
 
My interpretation differs from the notion that Janeway completely obliterated the transwarp network, but it's definite that significant and game changing damage was inflicted upon it. In regards to the neurolytic virus and it’s effects on the Collective after the results of Endgame, the term "decimate" historically signifies a reduction of 1/10th in efficacy or capacity, rather than reducing something to 1/10th. Therefore, if the Borg Collective truly suffered a decimation, they would have been functioning at 90% of their previous capabilities, not reduced to 10%.

Seven clearly stated at the end of VOY (in Endgame Part II):
"The Transwarp network has been obliterated Captain".

That's a rather encompassingly finite statement.

Of course, the Borg aren't completely reliant on the hubs to use Transwarp. Remember that they can generate/use their own independent conduits with TW coils... but it seems that there's a drawback to this as it might be power intensive and can burn out the TW coils unless you have enough of them to work in unison (the one TW coil VOY used was able to allow the ship to travel through 20 000 Ly's before it burned out).

Its possible this is why the Borg have built the TW hubs... to make TW travel more efficient. Why having to initiate TW twice, if you can only do so 50% of the time or less for example?

And when the Neurolythic pathogen hit them, the hubs were obliterated (preventing the Borg from travelling with the hubs) and having to rely on their own TW coils - but in a weakened condition and without nanoprobes, they'd have a hard time doing anything and would be easy targets.

If the Neurolytic virus did indeed affect the entire remaining Borg Collective in this way, then it seems as though the Collective has effectively been made ‘sterile’ or ‘neutered’ through the rendering of nano probes as ineffective. However, it raises the question as to why the Artifact was not similarly affected by the neurolytic virus, as this ship appeared to be functioning normally before its sub matrix collapse as a result of experiencing the Admonition.

We don't know what condition the Artifact was in when it encountered the Admonitiob. It was probably severely damaged as a result of the pathogen already and the Romulans were assimilated as an attempt to get some sense of function back... but this ended up backfiring on them and the AI signal/message effectively shut down the artifact.

I also think that the cube in Prodigy’s Let Sleeping Borg Lie was pretty much unscathed from the neurolytic virus once reactivated, Borg nano probes may not have been mentioned in order not to scare or confuse kids too much? Just because something is not mentioned though, it does not mean that it is not there.

No, Janeway DID mention the nanoprobes were non functional in this episode... hence losing the ability to assimilate via these means.
As for the state of the cube... well, that particular vessel could have had its own internal collective on the cube which was in its 'sleeping state' after the pathogen hit. A self-preservation mechanism if you will... so that cube might not have been connected to the Hive in general.

**EDIT**
The Borg Diamond ship at the end of Endgame had adapted to the neuroleptic virus, btw. I just remembered. I think that it wanted to assimilate Voyager… with nano probes.

We have no solid onscreen clarification about all of this really, perhaps we will find out one day in a spin-off or streaming movie. :)

No, the Borg Sphere (not a Diamond) in Endgame never adapted to the virus (it adapted to the Armor technology VOY had) and was still able to hear the Queen's thoughts at the end of Endgame... the pathogen was likely affecting the whole collective but it took time for it to proliferate across large distances.

My guess is that vessels that were further away from the Queen and the Unicomplex ended up disconnected from the main hive as a result, but this also made them weaker, damaged their nanoprobes, and most ships went into sleep mode... while some got destroyed (I would imagine a lot were destroyed) and only a few ships made it out in severely damaged state which prompted them to go to sleep in an attempt to repair themselves - but with lack of the Hive, they couldn't).
 
No it doesn't
Yes it does, because the possibility exists. Just like how people, organizations, buildings, etc., can exist in various timelines, so can particular designs like the Enterprise-J we saw. All we know is that she won't have to fight at Procyon V in the regular timeline, but there's nothing to suggest the events leading to her design doesn't happen anyway.
but if it does exist, it could be a later letter, or be named something else entirely.

We're not beholden to the J being THAT ship in THAT point in time anymore than we were the D getting a third nacelle
Believe it or not, I've stated those EXACT same points for many years, but I've also grown not to dismiss other possibilities, even if I may personally prefer something different.
 
It has just occurred to me how annoying it is that the modern writers think that something heavier than a cruise liner can perform hairpin turns just because it is in space.

The Ent-D was not in an atmosphere so there was no air resistance. Also, we know warp fields can reduce mass and inertial dampeners can "cancel out" inertia. So it is not unreasonable to assume that Trek tech would be able to make a large ship maneuver very quickly.
 
Yes it does, because the possibility exists. Just like how people, organizations, buildings, etc., can exist in various timelines, so can particular designs like the Enterprise-J we saw. All we know is that she won't have to fight at Procyon V in the regular timeline, but there's nothing to suggest the events leading to her design doesn't happen anyway.

Believe it or not, I've stated those EXACT same points for many years, but I've also grown not to dismiss other possibilities, even if I may personally prefer something different.

I haven't dismissed anything. When I said "no it doesn't" I was agreeing with you when you said it doesn't mean that the J won't exist which I thought was obvious from the fact I quoted you.
 
The Ent-D was not in an atmosphere so there was no air resistance. Also, we know warp fields can reduce mass and inertial dampeners can "cancel out" inertia. So it is not unreasonable to assume that Trek tech would be able to make a large ship maneuver very quickly.

Honestly anything we know about physics NOW can't really be applied to what starships should or shouldn't be able to do because it's all based on space-magic.
 
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