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Spoilers Star Trek: Khan 1x09 - "Eternity's Face"

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Does it really make sense that Khan would feel Kirk left them to die, though? Kirk left them to build an empire (on a planet he already knew would be rough), which Khan himself chose. He knows that future adverse conditions were caused by the Elborians, not Kirk. What is left to blame Kirk for, exactly?

Well, that goes back to TWoK: “Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on our progress.”

Granted, Khan would’ve resented that if he had known there was a minder and nothing went wrong. Probably would’ve even if he’d found out they were being watched because they were rescued, but the authoritarian mindset is allergic to accountability: everything is always a reaction, it’s always someone else who made them do it, nothing is ever their own choice.
 
Alok Sahar from Section 31 could somehow survive and escape Ceti Alpha 5 if Khan's daughter did? Or is there just no room for that? It frustrates me as one of the few people who liked the S31 movie how there's no explanation for his survival to the Trek present day, and I was wondering if this audio drama could've had a stealth explanation

Sahar wasn't one of Khan's people, he was under a rival Warlord. He wasn't on the Botany Bay, he was frozen as part of a prison sentence.
 
Khan still maintains his hatred of Kirk- that he 'left them there to die' in spite of knowing that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI had an artificial cause

But even so, the idea that he would forgive both personal betrayals- the person responsible for the hellish destruction of this planet that lied to him for 5 years about it, and the person that betrayed his trust and tried to kill him and now tried to usurp his leadership- while one person that he already knows did not leave him on an unstable planet and instead left him to pursue his own dreams (that he was pretty enthusiastic about until the Elboreans came and ruined them) still has his undying hatred...?

Does it really make sense that Khan would feel Kirk left them to die, though? Kirk left them to build an empire (on a planet he already knew would be rough), which Khan himself chose. He knows that future adverse conditions were caused by the Elborians, not Kirk. What is left to blame Kirk for, exactly?

So I do tend to wonder if perhaps we were given clues to try to explain why Khan's hatred of Kirk might be amped-up by TWOK, even if it isn't entirely rational based on the circumstances you have outlined?

I forget the exact number, but I think it was said in episode 8 that they only had enough rations for something like 37 days. But the Venture launched about five and a half years after Khan & Co. were left on Ceti Alpha V, which means they have to survive about another decade before Reliant inadvertently visits them in TWOK.

In this episode, we saw that Ivan survived five years out on his own by eating Ceti Alpha V's last surviving indigenous lifeform (according to TWOK): the Ceti eels (seemingly specifically the young ones, based on the scene in the episode). Since it's the only protein source around, presumably that's what Khan and his followers eat over the next decade to keep themselves alive. (This explains why Khan just happened to have some caged eels when Terrell and Chekov dropped by for a visit... they were their food source.)

But Ursula said that every time Ivan ate one, he was exposing himself to low levels of eel toxin, which Ivan then compared to vodka. So Khan's only source of food was something that was slowly poisoning him, and if it behaves somewhat similar to alcohol, is probably affecting his brain. So that may help to explain why Khan's anger and desire for vengeance goes beyond what one might consider rational, based on the circumstances. (After five years, Ivan came back pretty hepped up on anger and revenge, too.)

Now, that's not to say any of that is needed... the kind of trauma that Khan went through with the loss of his wife, his world, and the apparent loss of his child, is probably more than enough to push him over the edge and focus all his blame and anger on the person who he feels put him in the situation he's now in, whether it's rational or not. But this might add an extra element that I think is interesting to consider.

It might even explain why Khan's followers seem so zoned out and lethargic most of the time in TWOK.

Of course, it's possible that was never the intent, and I'm just reading too much into it. :lol:
 
I think the finale explained why Khan still resents Kirk. He assumes that Starfleet hasn't checked on them because they've been quarantined, and that any Augment who left the planet would be killed on sight if they went to Federation space. So even if Kirk didn't intentionally leave them on a planet he knew would be destroyed, Khan assumes that Kirk and Starfleet still had no intention of ever letting them escape the planet even after it started dying.

Also, while Khan had grown enough by the climax to forgive Delmonda, Lear/Kali said that when he believed he'd seen Kali killed, it negated that growth process and caused him to regress back into rage and vengeance. I'm reminded of certain people who were at least reasonably moderate and tolerant before 2001 but were radicalized into vicious Islamophobia and right-wing extremism after 9/11. People can change for the worse in response to trauma or fear, abandoning things they used to believe and becoming more irrational and detached from facts in their paranoia. Surviving on Ceti Alpha V for those final 10 years would've been very traumatic, so I can understand Khan's resentment and paranoia toward Starfleet continuing to fester and intensify over the years, with Kirk becoming the focus because he was the only face of Starfleet authority Khan knew.
 
This was a great finale, and I thought it did a good job of putting Khan into position to become the person we saw in The Wrath of Khan. I was a little surprised by some of Khan's portrayal in the earlier episodes, but I didn't really think it was as out of character as some people do. And really by portraying him that way at the start, it makes it downfall and transformation into the madman we saw in the movie much more tragic than if he'd already been portrayed more negatively at the beginning.
The one thing I haven't seen anybody mention that makes things with him especially tragic, is that if he hadn't lost it and destroyed the comm device when he thought the Venture was destroyed, then they would have been able to let the people on the planet know they were OK and Khan might not have gone quite as far off the deep end.
I was pretty happy with how they did the big reveal with Lean/Khali. The only issue I had a minor issue with is that the way Tuvok talked about people with Augment DNA doesn't seem to make a ton of sense, nobody seems to have any kind of a problem with La'An. Unless it's because Khali is the direct daughter of an Khan, while La'An is several generations away from him.
 
RE your comment about Augment DNA - Honestly, that is my feeling. It's because Khali is his DAUGHTER. Direct, 50% Augment DNA. (And further, raised with him for a few years.) La'An's DNA is there, but not nearly as...potent?

That brings up another thought that I have admittedly not considered all the way through yet, but here we go. We don't know exactly HOW Augment DNA works - i.e. does it have specific changes that make it MORE dominant in a given gene pool, and thus more likely to overrun a given gene pool (as in the Klingons)?
 
That brings up another thought that I have admittedly not considered all the way through yet, but here we go. We don't know exactly HOW Augment DNA works - i.e. does it have specific changes that make it MORE dominant in a given gene pool, and thus more likely to overrun a given gene pool (as in the Klingons)?

Dominant or recessive wouldn't matter in La'an's case, since she's so many generations removed that there are going to be few if any Augment gene packets left in her chromosomes. "Four and a Half Vulcans" asserted there are still some, but probably so few that they'd have no meaningful effect on her genome. A dominant gene is simply one that expresses with only one copy rather than two, not one that "takes over" anything outside its own pair of chromosomes. Even if the Augment genes were all dominant, they'd only make up half of a child's genome, a quarter of a grandchild's, an eighth of a great-grandchild's, and so on, so their influence would inevitably wane over time.

The Augment genes that created the quchHa' Klingons were spread by the Levodian flu retrovirus, which was designed to insert them into existing genomes. That's a different process from how genes are passed on through heredity (as well as a bit of nonsense technobabble, since retrovirally inserted genes have only a limited ability to alter the body, particularly when it comes to gross skeletal structure that's already grown in).
 
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