Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"

[Jaimito]

Too bad the series is almost finished. It will be a season to remember and rewatched in the future for sure.

Data overcoming Lore was like letting Smeagle kill off Gollum. Was nice to see Spot again, Tasha etc.

We know Tuvok will have another scene (the actor said he's in two episodes). I wonder if there is another surprise return. Janeway?

This finale draws so much from TNG/Voy/DS9, and is making me rewatch bunch of episodes on Paramount+.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's not Data.

Lore has been hypnotized into believing that he is Data.

It's like in that shitty season of Heroes where the shape shifting telepath Sylar is brain washed into thinking that he is Nathan Petrelli.

 

[Romulan_spy]

We know Tuvok will have another scene (the actor said he's in two episodes). I wonder if there is another surprise return. Janeway?

I think Terry Matalas has said that they could not get Janeway because of she is exclusive to Prodigy. But we know Tuvok will be back. I would not be surprised if the real Tuvok shows up as captain of the Voyager to help our crew save the day.

 

[SG-17]

Huh.

 

[Romulan_spy]

It's not Data.

Lore has been hypnotized into believing that he is Data.

It's like in that shitty season of Heroes where the shape shifting telepath Sylar is brain washed into thinking that he is Nathan Petrelli.

No, that is not what happened. Lore did not get hypnotized into believing that he is Data, he got all of Data's memories and actually became Data.

 

[jackoverfull]

Voyager was in the museum, so it’s no longer an active ship. There could be a new one with that name, of course.

 

[Turtletrekker]

No one "became" anyone else. They formed a new merged being that was mostly Data, just as Soong intended.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It's like in that shitty season of Heroes where the shape shifting telepath Sylar is brain washed into thinking that he is Nathan Petrelli.

I thought he was brainwashed into thinking he was Spock?

Huh.

What?

 

[Tosk]

What?

They're both lying on blue bubble-wrap-ish stuff.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

They're both lying on blue bubble-wrap-ish stuff.

Got it. I thought we were thinking Deanna's hand looked like a gloved Borg hand. Which in that atrocious lighting, it kinda does.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think Terry Matalas has said that they could not get Janeway because of she is exclusive to Prodigy.

If Tuvok, Deanna and Riker can appear on both LD and PIC, then Janeway can appear in any show they want.

Speaking of the Rikers....

Spoiler

Deanna said that they came for her at home. So do the changelings have Kestra as well?

Kestra wasn't on the Shrike...that we know of...

 

[137th Gebirg]

I don't think we're supposed to remember that.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Spoiler

Deanna said that they came for her at home. So do the changelings have Kestra as well?

Kestra wasn't on the Shrike...that we know of...

Somebody, possibly Terry Matalas, has said somewhere in an interview that:

Spoiler

There was dialogue between Troi and Riker that said she was safe at SF academy, but the lines were cut as they didn't feel natural to the scene.

edit, found it
https://twitter.com/TerryMatalas/status/1644872261063831553?t=-xaDxrCXq7M5arKT0IFOmw&s=19

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Somebody, possibly Terry Matalas, has said somewhere in an interview that:

Spoiler

There was dialogue between Troi and Riker that said she was safe at SF academy, but the lines were cut as they didn't feel natural to the scene.

edit, found it
https://twitter.com/TerryMatalas/status/1644872261063831553?t=-xaDxrCXq7M5arKT0IFOmw&s=19

That would indicate a much later year than the 2402-ish some are saying. Kestra was, what, ten in S1?

There's other dialogue leads me to think it's much later. Picard said "years ago" in reference to something from S1(?), and I know it's technically correct, but one doesn't usually use that term for 1-2 years.

 

[fireproof78]

If Tuvok, Deanna and Riker can appear on both LD and PIC, then Janeway can appear in any show they want.

Speaking of the Rikers....

Spoiler

Deanna said that they came for her at home. So do the changelings have Kestra as well?

Kestra wasn't on the Shrike...that we know of...

Probably not.

 

[SG-17]

They're both lying on blue bubble-wrap-ish stuff.

Got it. I thought we were thinking Deanna's hand looked like a gloved Borg hand. Which in that atrocious lighting, it kinda does.

Yep. Matalas said that there was a clue in this episode that people missed and I think this is it.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

That would indicate a much later year than the 2402-ish some are saying. Kestra was, what, ten in S1?

There's other dialogue leads me to think it's much later. Picard said "years ago" in reference to something from S1(?), and I know it's technically correct, but one doesn't usually use that term for 1-2 years.

I know. But they do seem to be doubling down on it being 2401 at the same time (Dave Blass and Michael Okuda seem to be on Twitter, at least).

The dates are the things the writers seem to be hoping we'll forget/ignore.

However, if TMs tweet about the the anniversary being when starfleet is recognisably starfleet because of it accepting non-humans, it could push it to 2404 (when T'Pol became an official SF officer). However, everything seems to be saying they still mean 2401, including the date, which sort of aligns with Broken Bow.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I know. But they do seem to be doubling down on it being 2401 at the same time (Dave Blass and Michael Okuda seem to be on Twitter, at least).

The dates are the things the writers seem to be hoping we'll forget/ignore.

However, if TMs tweet about the the anniversary being when starfleet is recognisably starfleet because of it accepting non-humans, it could push it to 2404 (when T'Pol became an official SF officer). However, everything seems to be saying they still mean 2401, including the date, which sort of aligns with Broken Bow.

The "inside information" posted on Twitter isn't always correct (see: the Federation Class DN denial among others)

As far as which anniversary it is, that has been argued around and around. Is it Earth SF? Is it the launch of the NX-01? The Coalition of Planets? The proper UFP and the Fed SF? A wide range of years there.

 

[cooleddie74]

The launch of the NX-01 seems the most likely milestone being honored. Is the Federation Starfleet 250 years old yet? Nope. Is Starfleet by any metric 250? No. Is the Federation? Again, nope. The Coalition of Planets was formed in 2155 so yet again: no.

Enterprise NX-01 was such an historic vessel for both Earth and the other founding member worlds of the eventual Federation that her launch in April of 2151 is considered in some ways the birth of Starfleet.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The launch of the NX-01 seems the most likely milestone being honored. Is the Federation Starfleet 250 years old yet? Nope. Is Starfleet by any metric 250? No. Is the Federation? Again, nope. The Coalition of Planets was formed in 2155 so yet again: no.

Enterprise NX-01 was such an historic vessel for both Earth and the other founding member worlds of the eventual Federation that her launch in April of 2151 is considered in some ways the birth of Starfleet.

Assuming it's 2401, then the NX-01 launch is the event. I still feel like anything other than the UFP/SF founding is a bit Earth-centric for something this huge.

So I'd guess Kestra was off having one of her adventures and came back to an empty house, then looked up that Captain she mentioned in S1 and will show up at the end of Ep10.

ETA:L Though LuLu Wilson was 14-15 around the time S1 filmed, we aren't sure at all how old Kestra was supposed to be. If the same age, there's a really slim chance she went to SF.