Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x05 - "Imposters"

[Agony_Boothb]

Did you even pay attention to my post? I'm not talking about the NEW changelings. I'm talking about how Riker (and the writers) completely misunderstood how OLD changelings worked, back during the time of the war.

Riker says changelings "don't mimic someone's internal physiology." Which is, of course, dead wrong. That was what I was talking about. As I clarified already.

Was it ever expressly stated that Changelings could mimic the internal organs of the individuals they were pretending to be? Apart from not being able to replicate blood, Odo said he had no sense of smell or taste so it doesn't appear that changelings can replicate a working olfactory system or taste buds. Sure Starfleet sensors couldn't detect changelings, but that could be for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Lord Hobbers]

How does Shaw know that he “snogged” a woman on Baku? That doesn’t seem like the sort of information that would be public.

The irony, of course, is that the kiss was actually edited out of the final movie, so he never did actually "snog" her!

 

[SJGardner]

Was it ever expressly stated that Changelings could mimic the internal organs of the individuals they were pretending to be? Apart from not being able to replicate blood, Odo said he had no sense of smell or taste so it doesn't appear that changelings can replicate a working olfactory system or taste buds. Sure Starfleet sensors couldn't detect changelings, but that could be for a multitude of reasons.

Per TNG's Inheritance, Starfleet sensors couldn't even recognize a Soong-type android if it's programmed to give off false human life signs. The idea that changelings who only superficially mimic solids could likewise fool sensors isn't unbelievable at all for me. The capabilities of Star Trek technology have always been subservient to the needs of the plot anyway.

 

[jaime]

Was it ever expressly stated that Changelings could mimic the internal organs of the individuals they were pretending to be? Apart from not being able to replicate blood, Odo said he had no sense of smell or taste so it doesn't appear that changelings can replicate a working olfactory system or taste buds. Sure Starfleet sensors couldn't detect changelings, but that could be for a multitude of reasons.

Privacy.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Poor Ro.

Another nice episode.

 

[Timofnine]

Does anybody know why the Changelings did not have Boungelliki buckets this week? They should have searched the ship again.

Or was the Changeling last week actually Odo gone rogue after all?

 

[asupackman]

It'll be a travesty if they don't give Stashwick and Ryan their own show after this. (Preferably with the bridge crew intact)

More gold from Shaw this week:

"I'm just chipper."

"I'll just step out so the three of you can get your bullshit story straight"

He could've just beamed Picard, Riker and Jack over to the Intrepid, but he does the right thing and runs, knowing all of Starfleet will be after them.

My hope is Shaw gets his own show and gets the Enterprise-F

and when he mockingly knighted Seven to reinstate her

 

[Deks]

Did you even pay attention to my post? I'm not talking about the NEW changelings. I'm talking about how Riker (and the writers) completely misunderstood how OLD changelings worked, back during the time of the war.

Riker says changelings "don't mimic someone's internal physiology." Which is, of course, dead wrong. That was what I was talking about. As I clarified already.

I don't recall from DS9 that a changeling was stated to be able to mimic someone's internal physiology.

 

[Tosk]

But it's worth noting that it was said that if you scan a Changeling when they're a rock, your scan will say it's a rock. Changelings were all about becoming a thing. I think it would be a mistake to assume that they were always just golden goo inside when pretending to be a person. A species that can become fog or fire can surely whip up copies of some internal organs.

 

[Deks]

Per TNG's Inheritance, Starfleet sensors couldn't even recognize a Soong-type android if it's programmed to give off false human life signs. The idea that changelings who only superficially mimic solids could likewise fool sensors isn't unbelievable at all for me. The capabilities of Star Trek technology have always been subservient to the needs of the plot anyway.

That's because Soong designed his wife to be as lifelike as possible.
It had a dedicated mechanism to fool tricorders (at least until you opened her up).
The idea that a changeling could do something similar is not beyond the realm of possibility... but given how extensively Bashir managed to scan Odo, the premise that sensors (which can scan to the subatomic) could be fooled by changelings didn't make much sense.
Some kind of morphogenic trace would had to have been left behind that sensors could detect.

SF sensors aren't always rigged to scan for all known parameters (even though they can)... this was also discovered in TNG when they had a problem of a leaking compound which the crew spread around the ship without knowing and started compromising ship systems.
But once LaForge ordered to readjust the sensor parameters, they were able to find it.

My guess is that Tricorders COULD be used to detect changelings, but it seems no one bothered to even try adjusting them.
They just said in DS9 they fool tricorders and that was the end of it (no real attempt was made/shown to try and solve that problem).

 

[Deks]

But it's worth noting that it was said that if you scan a Changeling when they're a rock, your scan will say it's a rock. Changelings were all about becoming a thing. I think it would be a mistake to assume that they were always just golden goo inside when pretending to be a person. A species that can become fog or fire can surely whip up copies of some internal organs.

And that's ridiculously vague and unhelpful to even start from.
In order to 'become' something you'd basically have to know the detailed principles behind what makes an object what it is.

And while I will agreee that experienced changelings might be able to have a higher degree of information about various species... the only other way I can think of is that they can take DNA samples of say a person, and use that as a baseline for changing into them (and even then, if any part of their body detaches, it usually reverts to its gelatinous state).

Changeling biology would have to have some kind of internal analyzer of sorts which gives them information about what makes an object an object - but Ds9 did not suggest the existence of such a mechanism.

 

[StewMc]

Does anybody know why the Changelings did not have Boungelliki buckets this week? They should have searched the ship again.

Or was the Changeling last week actually Odo gone rogue after all?

No.

 

[Mike Doyle]

This is the kind of bullshit writing on Star Trek Picard that shows that NuTrek writers don't know Star Trek.

"Edge of the Alpha Quadrant" is a useless statement. What does that mean in this context?

Do you know what is one "edge of the Alpha Quadrant"?
Earth.

One "edge of the Alpha Quadrant" (between alpha and beta) is literally in the middle of Federation space.

Writers on Discovery use similar lingo. They just want to say "Quadrant", because it sounds Star Trekish.

I’m sure plenty of people in America will say that something is on the Atlantic Coast meaning NYC.

I also live on the Atlantic coast but I’m in England. People use language in this way relying on context all of the time.

 

[Timofnine]

No.

Maybe Odo should make an appearance again in this or a future series to clarify? I hear that Rene Auberjonois’ son could do a good job in the role, for example.

Another way of clarifying would be for us to see more Boungelliki buckets in future episodes so that we know that these items are now standard Founder tech. The Founders this week did not have buckets, they were not even searched for. Captain Shaw should have called for regular ship wide searches for these devices several time each day. It is more effective to find a Changeling via their buckets than blood screening now after all…

 

[Mike Doyle]

People connected to Sneed

Okona’s third appearance/mention in the last couple of years.

 

[Mike Doyle]

Alexander is dead isn't he? Worf was unusually touchy about what he supposedly sacrificed

Alexander just turned up in an interesting capacity in the latest issue of the Star Trek comic.

 

[Mike Doyle]

It's logical that Krinn knows a thing or two about Shapeshifters--Kirk Acevedo played one on Fringe!

The Intrepid is the first Starfleet vessel in history to have a reverse gear!

These new Changelings really do keep their shift together through the very end. The Great Link turned Odo into a Solid, so it's not much of a stretch of their abilities.

Ro's backstory seems plausible. The Dominion War left a lot of job openings in Starfleet, too. Ro kept her ear to the ground for a long time, looks like.

Shame we didn't have the holographic 10 Forward play Elvis Costello when Picard requested music. Or did it? I couldn't hear!

I wouldn't want my quarters located near the port nacelle on any vessel in this fleet, if you know what I mean.

So mobile emitters are commonplace enough for offworld crime lords to recognize?

I think Worf will be skipping the prune juice for awhile...

The dominion also wiped out the maquis while joining with the Cardassians essentially proving that the Maquis were right!

The mobile emitter bugged me for a second before I thought about what it’s actually doing. All this is doing is projecting an image of Raffi just like holographic comms.

29th C Tech is what is needed for a much more complex sentient holo such as the Doctor.

 

[ToddCam]

Maybe Odo should make an appearance again in this or a future series to clarify? I hear that Rene Auberjonois’ son could do a good job in the role, for example.

Another way of clarifying would be for us to see more Boungelliki buckets in future episodes so that we know that these items are now standard Founder tech. The Founders this week did not have buckets, they were not even searched for. Captain Shaw should have called for regular ship wide searches for these devices several time each day. It is more effective to find a Changeling via their buckets than blood screening now after all…

They left their buckets on Intrepid.

 

[Mike Doyle]

I'm wondering if they have intentionally "de-evolved" some members of their species.

Evolution is not a one way process. It’s about having abilities that fit your current environment/situation.

I’m looking at it that those that are fleshy changelings are much better at mimicking people because they can do blood/internal organs but are probably not as good at pretending to be a table.

 

[jackoverfull]

Riker says changelings "don't mimic someone's internal physiology." Which is, of course, dead wrong. That was what I was talking about. As I clarified already

I wouldn’t be too sure about this. Sure, odo tells about how when he’s in the shape of an eagle he “is” an eagle, yet bashir was quite surprise to see his tricorder reading actual internal organs once he’s turned human.