Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candor"

[Llywela]

I wouldn't underestimate the ability of people with casual Trek knowledge to get into Picard. The show is doing a pretty good job of explaining/getting across what it needs to continuity-wise. And the mostly new cast makes it more newcomer friendly, I'd say.

Agreed. I know a few people watching Picard who don't have any previous Trek knowledge, and they are following and enjoying the story just fine. Knowing the backstory adds a lot of depth and nuance to the show, but isn't essential to understand the story being told.

 

[Longinus]

Agreed. I know a few people watching Picard who don't have any previous Trek knowledge, and they are following and enjoying the story just fine. Knowing the backstory adds a lot of depth and nuance to the show, but isn't essential to understand the story being told.

I think they're very consciously telling the story in such a manner, that it is at least technically self contained. There were some complaints about infordumps in some of the episodes, and this was part of that.

 

[urbandk]

I think they're very consciously telling the story in such a manner, that it is at least technically self contained. There were some complaints about infordumps in some of the episodes, and this was part of that.

This was a very damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Should have maybe done a SW style opening crawl

 

[Gonzo]

Same problem as with Star Trek. Old fans resent new characters elbowing out their faves. And since Old fans outnumber new fans, . Funny how they didn't anticipate what a breakout sale bombshell Baby Yoda would be, but after porgs and Jar Jar, maybe not that big a surprise.

Thing is with Baby Yoda, he is both old and new plus he can already do a pretty decent force choke.

Plus films 4,5 and 6 have been around for so long the majority of people have seen them at least once, even if they didnt intend to on the TV or when someone else has a VHS/DVD on.

I actually think that even the hardcore fans were open to having a new generation of characters come through with the baton being passed from the original generation, even the death of one of the main characters in 7 was accepted as a requirement to move the plot forward, they also accepted that all three of the original main characters would ultimately have to die (Luke especially) by the end of 8 or middle of 9 otherwise they would just be able to walk all over any enemy in the way including Palpatine.

Then they released 8 and the rest is history.

Just imagine if CBS decided to reboot the original Star Wars films with the same characters using a new cast like they did with Star Trek.

 

[Gonzo]

Ironically across the series, Mando kills a whole lot more people or his actions cause a lot more deaths than the bad guys ever do. I mean, the body count is not even close.

Well as always good and bad are relative terms, as long as its the bad that are dying it doesn't really matter.

Baby Yoda is clearly placed right in-between the light and the dark side, he could ultimately end up as either so its definitely a case of nurture over nature here.

 

[Danja]

Just imagine if CBS decided to reboot the original Star Wars films with the same characters using a new cast like they did with Star Trek.

Disney owns SW ... that's not going to happen.

 

[fireproof78]

Same problem as with Star Trek. Old fans resent new characters elbowing out their faves. And since Old fans outnumber new fans, . Funny how they didn't anticipate what a breakout sale bombshell Baby Yoda would be, but after porgs and Jar Jar, maybe not that big a surprise.

I think old fans underestimate new fans, possibly because it makes it less special. But, in my experience non fans can catch up pretty quickly.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I am still dubious of Dr. Jurati. They appear to be using all the classic nuances to signal a groundwork for her to be revealed as not being who or what she seems. Then again … I could just be paranoid.

She's so innocuous (not in a bad way; she's still interesting) and seems to not have a reason to be there, that it makes you think the writers are making us lower our guard so they can later heave a major reveal on us concerning Jurati. I mean, I've seen enough TV and movie drama to recognize those tropes.

Then again (and I'm leaning this way a bit), she could be exactly what she seems at face value, and the reason for her character being there is simply to be "us." We, the audience (especially the non-trekkie audience) are maybe supposed to be seeing her as the character who is most like us (a non-star fleet Earther) with our sensibilities, and we are to see the story unfold through her eyes.

Or she's a synth.

 

[oberth]

Authentic, realistic Star Trek ship-to-ship combat should be the same three stationary shots of two plastic models filmed against a green screen with an indistinct starfield, as they float in one place and exhange beams with each other. Only one ship can shoot at a time and they can only use one of their weapons for each attack. Them's the rules of honest age of sail warp gentlebeingly warfare.

and they need to get close, stop their engines and slug it out. ervery thing else is pew-pew or starwars or just unmanly.

 

[Danja]

Then again (and I'm leaning this way a bit), she could be exactly what she seems at face value, and the reason for her character being there is simply to be "us." We, the audience (especially the non-trekkie audience) are maybe supposed to be seeing her as the character who is most like us (a non-star fleet Earther) with our sensibilities, and we are to see the story unfold through her eyes.

The one "normal" person in a room full of "freaks" (Seven of Nine, Elnor, Hugh, etc.).

 

[fireproof78]

The one "normal" person in a room full of "freaks" (Seven of Nine, Elnor, Hugh, etc.).

That's all you need.

 

[SJGardner]

and they need to get close, stop their engines and slug it out. ervery thing else is pew-pew or stasrwars or just unmanly.

Star Trek combat should really be more like age-of-sail battles. Complete with hours upon hours of waiting after a volley until the cannons cool down enough, or the Enterprise running out of photon torpedoes and gentleman Captain Picard beaming over to the Romulan ship to request ammo from Tomalak so that they could keep fighting.

 

[Rahul]

The Mandalorian is pretty easy to pick up for the most part, it becomes pretty clear early on who you should be cheering for and who to boo.

To really understand Picard it does help to have seen TNG and if at all possible the latest films.

I think you just managed to sum up what I wanted to say in just two sentences. Well done. Everybody just read your post instead of mine!

I wouldn't underestimate the ability of people with casual Trek knowledge to get into Picard. The show is doing a pretty good job of explaining/getting across what it needs to continuity-wise. And the mostly new cast makes it more newcomer friendly, I'd say.

Indeed - PIC is obviously done by smart people. They're doing a hell of a good job of keeping people up to pace. Events that happened in TNG, the movies, VOY, or even ST09 are all re-introduced, multiple times, in flashbacks and in dialogue. My father didn't know Romulus blowing up in the backstory of ST09 was technically part of the TNG universe. He just watched TNG. For him, this is new information. And it's presented extremely well and easy to follow.

It's just that, overall, because of the amount of events referenced, this show is a) very dependant on info-dumps (there's a reason every single episode so far starts with a flashback), and b) very constrained by previous events (focusing so much on Romulans fells right, but the producers didn't really have another choice, if they don't want to disregard ST09).

For a sequel show, that's understandable. And this writing team is damn clever in re-introducing every single event so that it's easy to follow for newcomers, while at the same time introducing NEW events (attack on Mars, Borg reclamation side) for fans who do know all the backstory to not get bored. This series is super smart, it works on so many layers you don't think about most of them in the first place. Let's see where the main story goes, I still have no idea where this whole Romulan-agents-vs.-A.I.-plus-Borg-story will end up.

 

[oberth]

I think "The Mandalorian" is as independant from Star Wars as possible, while still remaining Star Wars. It needs you to know only the most basic things - Empire bad. Force mystical. Galaxy Western-like frontier. Everything else - from the familiar aliens like Jawas to EU-stuff like Mandalorians - is only optional knowledge.

A "independant" Star TREK show comparatively would still need you to know the most basic things about Star Trek - warp, beaming, phasers, Klingons, tricorder. That would be a great newcomer show. PIC on the other hand - which I dearly love - needs you to remember Picard, Locutus, Data's sacrifice, Romulan supernova, Hugh, defeated Borg, Tal'Shiar.... That's a whole different level of required backstory. One that's appropriate for a direct sequel (which Picard is). But I also want - in the future - a show that is "as" independant from previous Trek lore as "Mandalorian" is from Wars lore. That is - still filled with lore. But with only the most basic broad strokes required to understand.

it also kicks 'canon' out of the window - why is the child cabable of summoning the force naturally?

what happened to 'much to learn you have'?

... but it certainly got the proper vibes

 

[Rahul]

Star Trek combat should really be more like age-of-sail battles. Complete with hours upon hours of waiting after a volley until the cannons cool down enough, or the Enterprise running out of photon torpedoes and gentleman Captain Picard beaming over to the Romulan ship to request ammo from Tomalak so that they could keep fighting.

I very much like how different Star Trek's battle-style is from other shows. I do like it a bit slower, and more deliberate. At the same time, I always wish for it to be a bit more... violent. As in - we oftentimes see ships exchanging rounds of phasers, and nothing really changes, just shield percentages being count and some sparks flying, and then everybody talk ofterwards as if they didn't just shoot at each other with deadly weapons.

I really do like it when they have more story-dynamic. When single manoevers change the whole power-dynamic of the battle. This episode IMO did a really good job with that. The tactic of both sides was very well shown, and the cutting off of the Romulans engine, and the destruction of the fighter really did a good punch, and showed that battle was actually dangerous.

Basically, I like fewer battles, but they should be deadlier. This one really did it for me on a technical level.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'd also say that most of the major backstory is from Picard's post-Enterprise period, so we're learning it at the same time as newcomers. I'd think that the most casual familiarity with TNG and/or its movies would be sufficient to get the Data element of the backstory. Seven of Nine, Riker, that's all bonus.

 

[BillJ]

7.

Decent enough episode (a bit rough in the pacing), though I'm starting to wonder if they have enough story for ten episodes.

Though my wife said she's found he new religion.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Indeed. Previous Trek knowledge doesn't help making sense of Discovery one bit, it may even hinder it!

I have no problem, even after absorbing 54 years of tv, movies and books.

 

[oberth]

Though my wife said she's found he new religion.

you might want to ask vala mal doran how to handle ones own demotion as a god

 

[Danja]

Decent enough episode (a bit rough in the pacing), though I'm starting to wonder if they have enough story for ten episodes.

The series is still young.