Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candor"

[AlanC9]

Edit: I don't think I overstated the popularity gap between Star Wars and Star Trek. TNG went off the air 26 years ago. People in their forties and up are very familiar with it, but it's pretty niche for anyone under 30. Star Wars is watched almost universally, even by people with little interest in Sci Fi and children who were born long after even the prequels released.

I'm not sure off the air is a very useful metric. Streaming services aside, Trek shows are on cable pretty much all the time. Just like TOS was all over the place in the 70s.

 

[Jesse1066]

ALL the Classic Trek series (TOS through ENT) are available for streaming on Amazon Prime.

No one has to miss anything.

Picard is an icon. Ask the average person to "Name a Captain from Star Trek," chances are they'll answer either Kirk or Picard.

I'm not sure off the air is a very useful metric. Streaming services aside, Trek shows are on cable pretty much all the time. Just like TOS was all over the place in the 70s.

I still think it's pretty niche among younger people. Sure, people know who Kirk and Picard are, but none of the people I work with have seen enough Star Trek to really have a conversation about it, whereas I can talk Star Wars with almost anyone. That could be a coincidence, and I could be drawing a conclusion from too little data, but I feel that Star Trek isn't at the level of cultural saturation where an average viewer, or at least an average young viewer, would get as much out of Picard as they would from The Mandalorian.

I mean, what have more people seen, "The Measure of a Man," any Voyager episode after Scorpion, and Star Trek: Nemesis, or Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi?

 

[Danja]

I mean, what have more people seen, "The Measure of a Man," any Voyager episode after Scorpion, and Star Trek: Nemesis, or Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi?

For most people, SW begins and ends with the Original Trilogy (Luke Skywalker, Leia, Han Solo, and Darth Vader).

Mention people like Rey, Kylo Ren, or Jyn Erso, and they'll give you a blank stare (ETA: I only know their names because I've seen their action figures in the toy section at Target!)

 

[Alan Roi]

I still think it's pretty niche among younger people. Sure, people know who Kirk and Picard are, but none of the people I work with have seen enough Star Trek to really have a conversation about it, whereas I can talk Star Wars with almost anyone. That could be a coincidence, and I could be drawing a conclusion from too little data, but I feel that Star Trek isn't at the level of cultural saturation where an average viewer, or at least an average young viewer, would get as much out of Picard as they would from The Mandalorian.

I mean, what have more people seen, "The Measure of a Man," any Voyager episode after Scorpion, and Star Trek: Nemesis, or Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi?

You are comparing Apples and Oranges. But yes, I would suggest as many people have seen a Star Trek episode as have a Star Wars movie not to mention have watched as many hours of Star Trek content vs Star Wars content. I will agree, however, that the simplicity of SW content makes for easier conversation making. I'm sure there's plenty of people with no awareness of scifi who can gush over baby Yoda and how cute he is once shown a meme.

FYI, These women cosplayers from 2017's Wondercon do not look over 40 to me.

 

[Jesse1066]

For most people, SW begins and ends with the Original Trilogy (Luke Skywalker, Leia, Han Solo, and Darth Vader).

Mention people like Rey, Kylo Ren, or Jyn Erso, and they'll give you a blank stare.

ETA: I only know their names because I've seen their action figures in the toy section at Target!

You are comparing Apples and Oranges. But yes, I would suggest as many people have seen a Star Trek episode as have a Star Wars movie not to mention have watched as many hours of Star Trek content vs Star Wars content.

FYI, These women cosplayers from 2017's Wondercon do not look over 40 to me.

I think the baseline of fan knowledge to enjoy The Mandalorian is lower than it is for Picard, but I guess you don't really need to have seen everything referenced in a show to know what's going on, and it's not like nobody under 40 knows enough about Captain Picard to "get" the show.

 

[Danja]

I think the baseline of fan knowledge to enjoy The Mandalorian is lower than it is for Picard, but I guess you don't really need to have seen everything referenced in a show to know what's going on, and it's not like nobody under 40 knows enough about Captain Picard to "get" the show.

I gather this is one reason Picard is being made.

It's going to sit on Amazon's/CBSAA's servers now and forever, long after it ends -- right along with the rest of Trek.

 

[Alan Roi]

I think the baseline of fan knowledge to enjoy The Mandalorian is lower than it is for Picard, but I guess you don't really need to have seen everything referenced in a show to know what's going on, and it's not like nobody under 40 knows enough about Captain Picard to "get" the show.

I will agree the baseline of The Mandalorian is a lot more grade school friendly than Picard is. An eight year old is going to find it easier to follow the adventures of baby Yoda than they will nonagenarian Jean Luc. Then again, the median age in the US is 38 so you do have a pretty vast audience of people over the age of 40 as compared to people under the age of 12.

 

[Rahul]

I would entirely disagree with you that The Mandalorian is "independant" of Star Wars any more than Picard is of Star Trek. It is ridiculously steeped in Star Wars lore it would choke a bantha. No one just walking in will get a fraction of what is going on compared to a SW fan. While all their SW friends will be going ooh and awe they will be going, what the? What does this mean? How is this important? Why is one group of guys in armor good and the other group of guys in armor bad? Why do you call the little green guy baby Yoda? etc. etc. It's about as far as you could go on Star Wars nostalgia without including a familar face.

I think "The Mandalorian" is as independant from Star Wars as possible, while still remaining Star Wars. It needs you to know only the most basic things - Empire bad. Force mystical. Galaxy Western-like frontier. Everything else - from the familiar aliens like Jawas to EU-stuff like Mandalorians - is only optional knowledge.

A "independant" Star TREK show comparatively would still need you to know the most basic things about Star Trek - warp, beaming, phasers, Klingons, tricorder. That would be a great newcomer show. PIC on the other hand - which I dearly love - needs you to remember Picard, Locutus, Data's sacrifice, Romulan supernova, Hugh, defeated Borg, Tal'Shiar.... That's a whole different level of required backstory. One that's appropriate for a direct sequel (which Picard is). But I also want - in the future - a show that is "as" independant from previous Trek lore as "Mandalorian" is from Wars lore. That is - still filled with lore. But with only the most basic broad strokes required to understand.

 

[Captain pl1ngpl0ng]

Picard episode discussions are the best on the internet!

 

[Gonzo]

Authentic, realistic Star Trek ship-to-ship combat should be the same three stationary shots of two plastic models filmed against a green screen with an indistinct starfield, as they float in one place and exhange beams with each other. Only one ship can shoot at a time and they can only use one of their weapons for each attack. Them's the rules of honest age of sail warp gentlebeingly warfare.

I am hoping that one day they will actually fire first rather than just sitting there waiting to be tagged by the other side.

We come in peace, shoot to kill.

 

[Gonzo]

For most people, SW begins and ends with the Original Trilogy (Luke Skywalker, Leia, Han Solo, and Darth Vader).

Mention people like Rey, Kylo Ren, or Jyn Erso, and they'll give you a blank stare (ETA: I only know their names because I've seen their action figures in the toy section at Target!)

I think Disney was hoping to make some serious money from the new action figures but it didnt pan out that way.

Its highly likely that the average viewer would be more likely to remember Picard than Janeway or Sisko unless they are over a certain age range in which case it would be Kirk due to ToS or the original films, if they are under a certain age range there is a fair chance they wont know who any of them are except for Kirk due to the latest batch of films.

 

[Gonzo]

I think "The Mandalorian" is as independant from Star Wars as possible, while still remaining Star Wars. It needs you to know only the most basic things - Empire bad. Force mystical. Galaxy Western-like frontier. Everything else - from the familiar aliens like Jawas to EU-stuff like Mandalorians - is only optional knowledge.

A "independant" Star TREK show comparatively would still need you to know the most basic things about Star Trek - warp, beaming, phasers, Klingons, tricorder. That would be a great newcomer show. PIC on the other hand - which I dearly love - needs you to remember Picard, Locutus, Data's sacrifice, Romulan supernova, Hugh, defeated Borg, Tal'Shiar.... That's a whole different level of required backstory. One that's appropriate for a direct sequel (which Picard is). But I also want - in the future - a show that is "as" independant from previous Trek lore as "Mandalorian" is from Wars lore. That is - still filled with lore. But with only the most basic broad strokes required to understand.

The Mandalorian is pretty easy to pick up for the most part, it becomes pretty clear early on who you should be cheering for and who to boo.

Its essentially The Good (Mando), The Bad (Empire) and the Ugly (Neutral Baby Yoda) in space.

To really understand Picard it does help to have seen TNG and if at all possible the latest films.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

But without all the SW memorbilia hanging around its just a run of the mill scifi adaptation of Lone Wolf and Cub with a lot of spaghetti western dressing.

Oh yeah, just one of those...

 

[Alan Roi]

I think "The Mandalorian" is as independant from Star Wars as possible, while still remaining Star Wars. It needs you to know only the most basic things - Empire bad. Force mystical. Galaxy Western-like frontier. Everything else - from the familiar aliens like Jawas to EU-stuff like Mandalorians - is only optional knowledge.

A "independant" Star TREK show comparatively would still need you to know the most basic things about Star Trek - warp, beaming, phasers, Klingons, tricorder. That would be a great newcomer show. PIC on the other hand - which I dearly love - needs you to remember Picard, Locutus, Data's sacrifice, Romulan supernova, Hugh, defeated Borg, Tal'Shiar.... That's a whole different level of required backstory. One that's appropriate for a direct sequel (which Picard is). But I also want - in the future - a show that is "as" independant from previous Trek lore as "Mandalorian" is from Wars lore. That is - still filled with lore. But with only the most basic broad strokes required to understand.

I am interested in seeing how independent Prodigy turns out to be, given it is going to be a nickelodeon show and aimed squarely at young newcomers to the franchise.

 

[Danja]

A "independant" Star TREK show comparatively would still need you to know the most basic things about Star Trek - warp, beaming, phasers, Klingons, tricorder. That would be a great newcomer show.

There IS a current Trek show that fits that criteria: Discovery.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I wouldn't underestimate the ability of people with casual Trek knowledge to get into Picard. The show is doing a pretty good job of explaining/getting across what it needs to continuity-wise. And the mostly new cast makes it more newcomer friendly, I'd say.

 

[urbandk]

There IS a current Trek show that fits that criteria: Discovery.

Great point! In fact by beginning it when they did, they had both a clean slate and a lot of constraints on what they could and couldn't do.

You could definitely walk into that show cold and get up to speed fast.

 

[Alan Roi]

I think Disney was hoping to make some serious money from the new action figures but it didnt pan out that way.

Same problem as with Star Trek. Old fans resent new characters elbowing out their faves. And since Old fans outnumber new fans, . Funny how they didn't anticipate what a breakout sale bombshell Baby Yoda would be, but after porgs and Jar Jar, maybe not that big a surprise.

 

[Longinus]

There IS a current Trek show that fits that criteria: Discovery.

Indeed. Previous Trek knowledge doesn't help making sense of Discovery one bit, it may even hinder it!

 

[Alan Roi]

The Mandalorian is pretty easy to pick up for the most part, it becomes pretty clear early on who you should be cheering for and who to boo.

Its essentially The Good (Mando), The Bad (Empire) and the Ugly (Neutral Baby Yoda) in space.

To really understand Picard it does help to have seen TNG and if at all possible the latest films.

Ironically across the series, Mando kills a whole lot more people or his actions cause a lot more deaths than the bad guys ever do. I mean, the body count is not even close.