Thanks for the info. :-)
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x08 - "If Memory Serves"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Thanks for the info. :-)
*hums the Koon ut Kal if Fee theme from Amok Time*
I don't know, I can't remember any fight scenes at all
We pretty much knew it was a couple of years after The Cage from the year that episode and the years this show are set
He also orders down a phaser rifle so he can blast Mitchell into atoms.
Only on page 7 so far, but I had to comment! What Michael did to Spock was along the lines of what I was expecting; a heartbreaking lie, but goddamn, that was HEARTBREAKING. Michael was super shitty, but did something that I would have done and been equally as shitty in that same situation. There's no denying that it was wrong, but she did what she thought was right and then had to suffer the consequences of it compounded over time. From what I thought was just a random connection for the sake of connecting the shows, DSC has made Michael's relationship with Spock (and Sarek and Amanda) the most "realistic" portrayal of what blended future family might have to go through with scifi circumstances making things extra difficult. We saw the framework of this family dynamic, I feel, with Torres in VOY, but the time and care of short season trying to hit the notes of 'prestige' tv-drama in it's writing and character development has given me my new favorite set of relationships in Star Trek, honestly, ever. Huge shoutout to the kid playing young Spock, he's simply wonderful. The cutting between big/little Spock/Michael in the flashback scene, with Peck's gravely voice, was a beautiful piece of television.
And while I think it sucks that Stamets and Culber can't seem to cut a break as a pair, the individual arc for Culber is very interesting. I kept feeling so smothered by Stamets in their scenes together and I kept thinking, 'omg dude just back off!' but at the same time, would I have been that different than Stamets in his position? Absolutely not, and I think that's what made these scenes so successful. The torment that both these men are experiencing boils over in each scene they share and it's fantastically executed. When Stamets doesn't know what else to do but ask why Culber is so angry with him, that was a total gut-punch of simple, concise, heartfelt writing perfectly acted. I'm tearing up just thinking back on it, to be honest. And then having Ash, at the end of the fight, pretty much spell out in writing the parallel between him and Culber was an excellent touch.
Also, it looks pretty clear that the Braniac probe is from the future version of Control, right? And that Control really is an AI that runs or at least, plans missions, for Section 31? Wouldn't it be amazing if we got a TV-movie version of Control and Alexander Siddig comes back to play Bashir, to finish the story of Section 31 after DSC is done with it? If I were to wager a guess of how the dots connect to Calypso, it looks like Control takes over the Federation eventually becomes an AI race called the V'draysh, that is trying to kill all humans by the 33rd century? So their probe arrives in the 28th, where Control is already in...control, repurposes the probe and sends it back to the 23rd to take over earlier in the timeline, but then a human from (some century) comes back to stop it? I'm super curious how they piece it all together, and what active timelines these incursions are coming from. Hell, what if Future Guy is actually Control...!
So if DSC has a recap from The Cage...does that make it prime timeline yet?
And while I think it sucks that Stamets and Culber can't seem to cut a break as a pair, the individual arc for Culber is very interesting. I kept feeling so smothered by Stamets in their scenes together and I kept thinking, 'omg dude just back off!' but at the same time, would I have been that different than Stamets in his position? Absolutely not, and I think that's what made these scenes so successful. The torment that both these men are experiencing boils over in each scene they share and it's fantastically executed. When Stamets doesn't know what else to do but ask why Culber is so angry with him, that was a total gut-punch of simple, concise, heartfelt writing perfectly acted. I'm tearing up just thinking back on it, to be honest. And then having Ash, at the end of the fight, pretty much spell out in writing the parallel between him and Culber was an excellent touch.
Also, it looks pretty clear that the Braniac probe is from the future version of Control, right? And that Control really is an AI that runs or at least, plans missions, for Section 31? Wouldn't it be amazing if we got a TV-movie version of Control and Alexander Siddig comes back to play Bashir, to finish the story of Section 31 after DSC is done with it? If I were to wager a guess of how the dots connect to Calypso, it looks like Control takes over the Federation eventually becomes an AI race called the V'draysh, that is trying to kill all humans by the 33rd century? So their probe arrives in the 28th, where Control is already in...control, repurposes the probe and sends it back to the 23rd to take over earlier in the timeline, but then a human from (some century) comes back to stop it? I'm super curious how they piece it all together, and what active timelines these incursions are coming from. Hell, what if Future Guy is actually Control...!
So if DSC has a recap from The Cage...does that make it prime timeline yet?
Technically true, but that was a formal fight where Spock used weapons and not martial arts.
Spock was supposed to do karate chops in one scene, but Nimoy disagreed and created the famous Nerve Pinch. So there was an effort by Nimoy to tone down Spock's hand to hand combat in TOS itself.
because he was a lazy bastard, let's face it, who didn't want to learn his choreography
While dramatic and gut-punching, there must be something medically wrong with Culber still, or his time in the network affected his mind in a permanent way. Or the memory of actually dying perhaps.
Because, to put it bluntly, what happened to him is pretty much what happens every single time someone is transported. They are basically killed and reassembled. Again and again and again. But because the reconstituted person feels and thinks exactly like the person being disassembled, no one ever remarks on it.
It's something that's been handwaved in Trek over the past 50 years. Someone once pointed out to me that the "transporter twin" of Riker pretty much proves that each transported person is killed and a copy is made.
Spock's probably taking notes that ensures he handles his resurrection a lot better come the movies.
No, I think his DNA is identical.
DNA is just adenine guanine cytosine, and thymine. As long as the sequences of those chemicals are the same in each cell, Culber's DNA is the same. It doesn't matter what A, G, C, and T originally came from.
To think of it this way, an atom of hydrogen on Earth is chemically the same as an atom of hydrogen in Mars.
The reason he couldn't leave before was because he wasn't human, he was a recreation using whatever the shroom people made him from, and his mind.
They needed Human DNA to make a body that could work outside of the nerwork.
And they got his human DNA. That's why he looks like Culber. If they had gotten, say, Scotty's DNA he would look like Scotty with Culber's memories, or something.
And ALL human DNA is made from A, G, C, T. You and I, for example, have the same DNA components. It's just arranged in different sequences.
If someone wanted to rearrange your AGCT sequences to turn your DNA into mine (assuming such technology exists), it could be done.
I think spending months in the network also had an effect on him and his anger, not just the 'new body' stuff. That's what my read on it was, that yeah its weird to be in a fresh new body, but its a fresh new body he doesn't know because its literally not the body he had the day before, the torn up mess. Whether or not 'technically' a transported body is different or the same, is a nitpick, in this situation. Being unfamiliar with his new body is the vessel for the anger he has of being tortured for months and separated from everything he knows.
It was his DNA, just made from spore stuff. He was "beamed" back to our reality and reassembled using Prime atoms. Or something.
I think it's actually the memory of his death and the months of being in the network that is messing up Culber's mind. Same as with Picard's time in the Borg.
If a Vulcan mind melded with Picard/Culber and erased their memories of their experiences, they'd probably wake up the next day not realizing anything had happened. There are probably Federation rules against that though (unless you're Worf's brother. :P )
If a Vulcan mind melded with Picard/Culber and erased their memories of their experiences, they'd probably wake up the next day not realizing anything had happened. There are probably Federation rules against that though (unless you're Worf's brother. :P )
Damnit! Now I'm wondering all over again how Tilly and everyone else managed to breathe in the spore dimension if no normal atoms were there.
Amazing episode! Every character interaction was spot on, and what Burnham said to young-Spock was heartbreaking. Pike and Vena was surprisingly impactful too, and adds depth to The Cage and The Menagerie, not just feeding off their nostalgia.
The only nitpick I have is the lense flares - the cast is acting their socks off, and I want to be able to see their faces!
I'm starting to make some theories as to what's really going on this season. I think Control is the Big Bad this season. Over time I think it gets more powerful and in the following centuries goes full Skynet. That's why it has hijacked Ariam and accesses Discovery's files: It knows that Discovery is a threat. After Control is dealt with, it ruins Section 31's credibility, turning it into the underground organisation we know from DS9.
I also think that Calypso ties into this: Discovery has to remain hidden in a nebula for centuries, like positioning a chess piece for some gambit at some future point in the game.
I also think Burnham is the Red Angel. It's a human, and from the silhouette, it appears female, which greatly reduces the possibilities. How she acquires the future-suit is still unclear.
The only nitpick I have is the lense flares - the cast is acting their socks off, and I want to be able to see their faces!
I'm starting to make some theories as to what's really going on this season. I think Control is the Big Bad this season. Over time I think it gets more powerful and in the following centuries goes full Skynet. That's why it has hijacked Ariam and accesses Discovery's files: It knows that Discovery is a threat. After Control is dealt with, it ruins Section 31's credibility, turning it into the underground organisation we know from DS9.
I also think that Calypso ties into this: Discovery has to remain hidden in a nebula for centuries, like positioning a chess piece for some gambit at some future point in the game.
I also think Burnham is the Red Angel. It's a human, and from the silhouette, it appears female, which greatly reduces the possibilities. How she acquires the future-suit is still unclear.
The spore people gave her those TAS life support belts
Can I say once again that Discovery is a honking big time machine? There's absolutely nothing stopping Stamets from jumping 1000 years in the future, as long as he can navigate there and back.
boop
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