Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion

[Gingerbread Demon]

Have to concur.... I love Beyond but to my tastes I preferred Into Darkness more. Beyond is nice but it feels like a two parter of one of the TV shows. Having said that yes I changed my ranking from the earlier post. I just find I have more fun with ID

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I just can't see that at all.



I think this is fair.

It was like a case of 'follow that' after Cumberbatch. Idris Elba certainly deserved more. I think Thomas Hardy suffers from the same thing in the Nolan Batman trilogy.

Eh. Cumberbatch didn't give a bad performance but his storyline was basically non-sensical (and led to Spock's dumbest scene ever). He was far from a fantastic villain.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Eh. Cumberbatch didn't give a bad performance but his storyline was basically non-sensical (and led to Spock's dumbest scene ever). He was far from a fantastic villain.

Do you mean the phone call between the two Spocks?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Do you mean the phone call between the two Spocks?

That was pretty dumb but the 'homage' to TWOK where Spock goes full fight club was dumber.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Eh. Cumberbatch didn't give a bad performance but his storyline was basically non-sensical (and led to Spock's dumbest scene ever). He was far from a fantastic villain.

I’m not talking about the storyline. I’m talking about the physicality and menace that Cumberbatch brought to the role. Most ST movies can only wish they had a villain that good.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

And he broke Chapel's leg physically, and squashed her dad's head, brutal

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I’m not talking about the storyline. I’m talking about the physicality and menace that Cumberbatch brought to the role. Most ST movies can only wish they had a villain that good.

As I said, Cumberbatch gave a good performance. But for me personally, a good performance in a bad story is still a bad story/character.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

As I said, Cumberbatch gave a good performance. But for me personally, a good performance in a bad story is still a bad story/character.

I think I mistook you. Originally you said he gave a 'not bad' performance, which to me signified 'generally adequate' rather than 'good'. But you clarified in the post above. Sorry about that.

For me it's nice to see Cumberbatch take a villainous role. He's got a better face for playing neerdowells and crooks than he does for playing oddballs and gifted-autists.

I can't fault your reasoning though. If something takes you out of the movie then it failed you and I understand that.

 

[fireproof78]

I’m not talking about the storyline. I’m talking about the physicality and menace that Cumberbatch brought to the role. Most ST movies can only wish they had a villain that good.

Between Weller and Cumberbatch the villains in this film are extremely well done, and have a strong presence felt throughout. Cumberbatch starts out as just the Macguffin for Kirk to find and then transitions to uneasy ally to the villain. But, if that doesn't work then I get why people wouldn't enjoy the film.

 

[plynch]

I think it would’ve been a cooler, less - I dunno - predictable film, to have Khan remain more untrustworthy ally than turn into a baddie.

But it’s been a long time since I watched.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it would’ve been a cooler, less - I dunno - predictable film, to have Khan remain more untrustworthy ally than turn into a baddie.

But it’s been a long time since I watched.

Could have been fun. Be curious how to work the 3rd act.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I think it would’ve been a cooler, less - I dunno - predictable film, to have Khan remain more untrustworthy ally than turn into a baddie.

But it’s been a long time since I watched.

I do wonder though the same thing. It is after all an alternate universe that they are set in so how different the timeline could have been had Khan remained a somewhat untrustworthy ally through the whole film. I would have preferred that and now the final act that we did get.

 

[fireproof78]

I do wonder though the same thing. It is after all an alternate universe that they are set in so how different the timeline could have been had Khan remained a somewhat untrustworthy ally through the whole film. I would have preferred that and now the final act that we did get.

But how? It's an interesting idea in the abstract but Khan is a megalomaniac so his utilitarian motive as an ally would only work if they have a mutual enemy. Something, something, enemy of my enemy is my friend. Heard that some where...

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

But how? It's an interesting idea in the abstract but Khan is a megalomaniac so his utilitarian motive as an ally would only work if they have a mutual enemy. Something, something, enemy of my enemy is my friend. Heard that some where...

Oh fair enough... Just an idea

 

[fireproof78]

Oh fair enough... Just an idea

It's not a bad idea. I'm just musing idly about what could be. Who wold be the enemy? How would Khan continue as an ally?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It's not a bad idea. I'm just musing idly about what could be. Who wold be the enemy? How would Khan continue as an ally?

They could have pulled a 180 and have this version of Khan be a not so bad kind of good guy that floats between being 100 percent bad and good

 

[Grendelsbayne]

They were already on that road anyway. Montalban's Khan would never have been so genuinely passionate about the lives of his 'family' as Cumberbatch's was. He was a classic self-aggrandizing abuser.

 

[Tosk]

I just wish Benedict hadn't chosen to o-ver e-nun-ciate and o-ver work his jaw so ex-tens-ive-ly. It comes across as a weird performance style rather than a genuine character trait.
...to me, at least.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I just wish Benedict hadn't chosen to o-ver e-nun-ciate and o-ver work his jaw so ex-tens-ive-ly. It comes across as a weird performance style rather than a genuine character trait.
...to me, at least.

Oh dear now that I think of it "performance art" well when he spoke it was like that haha

 

[fireproof78]

They could have pulled a 180 and have this version of Khan be a not so bad kind of good guy that floats between being 100 percent bad and good

Except, that wouldn't track from the timeline split. Unless his suffering under Marcus had moved him a bit, like a 160 degree turn or something like that.

I just wish Benedict hadn't chosen to o-ver e-nun-ciate and o-ver work his jaw so ex-tens-ive-ly. It comes across as a weird performance style rather than a genuine character trait.
...to me, at least.

See, I love his speech style. Everything about it appeals to me, the precise diction, the controlled pacing, and his enunciation was very much inline with how I love speech to be done. It strikes me as a man who values extreme control.