Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Well I only got a quick look at her, but she's kind of different all over, but in arguably subtle ways. Apart from the obvious (1701-A) there's more red on the hull (up top on the saucer), the nacelles are both attached differently (the struts are attached extremely close to the front of the nacelles) and have different caps (they are no longer hooded as much) and just seems a bit more...rugged rather than sleek. But not in a bad way. Hopefully someone will snap a pic very soon so we can dissect her. 
I'm glad there are more people who feel like that. This movie really had a Star Trek soul and a love for Trek that ST09 and STID never had.
This film was the first time I actually cared about Pine's Kirk. I honestly didn't expect this to ever happen after the last two movies. Was anybody really affected by his "death" in STID? Did anybody really buy that these people might be friends and a tight-knit crew?
In Beyond... it just works. So well.
I didn't find Krall's hate for peace and cooperation all that believable I'm afraid. I get what they were going for but that was probably the weakest part of the movie for me. On the other hand he was still way better than "angry Nero".
What's your take on that then? Why did you find it so convincing? I'm happy to be convinced.
The movie only had a few lines about who Krall was and it was somewhat difficult to follow. I had to piece things together after the movie before I realized what his actual motivation was. Frankly, its something non-fans would not understand as it delves heavily into Trek history.
I forgot what his human name was, but Krall was a human MACO Major who fought in both the Xindi War and the Romulan War. After the two wars, the UFP was created. The MACO forces, which was a branch of the Earth military, were disbanded and he was incorporated into the newly formed Starfleet as a Captain. As a decorated MACO officer, Krall was given the USS Franklin, the first warp 4/5 (?) capable starship of it's time.
The problem was, Krall is a soldier of war and not a starship Captain who runs around putting out fires and making peace. He quickly fell into the same rut Kirk was in at the start of the movie. Krall did not believe his mission of "exploring strange new worlds, discovering new life and new civilizations" was worth doing. He did not believe joining with the Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites to form a Federation was a good idea. Since Krall is from Jonathan Archer's era, it is not too surprising that that he believes Humanity can stand it's own and does not need the other alien species, just like the Terra Prime faction believed in ENT.
And when he discovered this alien world, it's history, and it's technology, he decided to abandon Starfleet and set about planning the destruction of the Federation and returning Humanity to its central place in the universe. Now, I admit this is where things get a little fuzzy as to why he spent nearly 100 years plotting and planning while the Federation got larger and larger. Maybe the alien tech he was using to keep himself and his remaining 2 officers alive had turned them crazy. *shrugs* but that's what set up the chain of events in Star Trek Beyond.
In other words, Star Trek Beyond is the story of a Captain gone rogue. A Captain who believed Humanity-Only was the only route to go. And since Krall was once a Captain, it explained how he easily tapped into Starfleet frequencies, knew how to bypass the Enterprise's shields and take down the ship with ease.
I really loved that Kirk was in the same position Krall was in at the start of the movie, demotivated, unsure of why he was serving in Starfleet. I loved that it took the entire crew to piece together Krall's story and plan. Scotty and Jaylah who discovered the Franklin and it's archives, Uhura and Sulu who discovered Krall's plan of destroying the Federation, and especially Uhura's ears and linguistics training that gave them the final piece of the puzzle, that Krall was the Captain of the USS Franklin. And thru defeating Krall, Pine's Kirk now understands his purpose as Captain of the Enterprise. Kirk now understands that the activity of exploring strange new worlds, seeking new lives and new civilizations has a purpose. It strengthens the Federation as a whole, making it more united and stronger with each passing day.
I forgot what his human name was, but Krall was a human MACO Major who fought in both the Xindi War and the Romulan War. After the two wars, the UFP was created. The MACO forces, which was a branch of the Earth military, were disbanded and he was incorporated into the newly formed Starfleet as a Captain. As a decorated MACO officer, Krall was given the USS Franklin, the first warp 4/5 (?) capable starship of it's time.
The problem was, Krall is a soldier of war and not a starship Captain who runs around putting out fires and making peace. He quickly fell into the same rut Kirk was in at the start of the movie. Krall did not believe his mission of "exploring strange new worlds, discovering new life and new civilizations" was worth doing. He did not believe joining with the Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites to form a Federation was a good idea. Since Krall is from Jonathan Archer's era, it is not too surprising that that he believes Humanity can stand it's own and does not need the other alien species, just like the Terra Prime faction believed in ENT.
And when he discovered this alien world, it's history, and it's technology, he decided to abandon Starfleet and set about planning the destruction of the Federation and returning Humanity to its central place in the universe. Now, I admit this is where things get a little fuzzy as to why he spent nearly 100 years plotting and planning while the Federation got larger and larger. Maybe the alien tech he was using to keep himself and his remaining 2 officers alive had turned them crazy. *shrugs* but that's what set up the chain of events in Star Trek Beyond.
In other words, Star Trek Beyond is the story of a Captain gone rogue. A Captain who believed Humanity-Only was the only route to go. And since Krall was once a Captain, it explained how he easily tapped into Starfleet frequencies, knew how to bypass the Enterprise's shields and take down the ship with ease.
I really loved that Kirk was in the same position Krall was in at the start of the movie, demotivated, unsure of why he was serving in Starfleet. I loved that it took the entire crew to piece together Krall's story and plan. Scotty and Jaylah who discovered the Franklin and it's archives, Uhura and Sulu who discovered Krall's plan of destroying the Federation, and especially Uhura's ears and linguistics training that gave them the final piece of the puzzle, that Krall was the Captain of the USS Franklin. And thru defeating Krall, Pine's Kirk now understands his purpose as Captain of the Enterprise. Kirk now understands that the activity of exploring strange new worlds, seeking new lives and new civilizations has a purpose. It strengthens the Federation as a whole, making it more united and stronger with each passing day.
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Yeah, okay. I'm afraid I did not miss any of that.
I always find these "He doesn't know how to deal with peace so he prefers conflict"-stories a little underwhelming.
It really didn't hurt my enjoyment of the movie, though. And I think Idris Elba also did a great job showing the guy's conflicted nature in those last scenes in Yorktown.
You could really see it in his face.
To be honest I always find it a bit unfortunate to hide a great actor under an alien mask that eliminates a lot of nuance from the acting. So I'm grateful it changed in those last bits.
I always find these "He doesn't know how to deal with peace so he prefers conflict"-stories a little underwhelming.
It really didn't hurt my enjoyment of the movie, though. And I think Idris Elba also did a great job showing the guy's conflicted nature in those last scenes in Yorktown.
You could really see it in his face.
To be honest I always find it a bit unfortunate to hide a great actor under an alien mask that eliminates a lot of nuance from the acting. So I'm grateful it changed in those last bits.
I personally thought he went over the top after he started using the alien tech, but I could be wrong. The Machine extends Krall's life hundreds of years and evidently makes him resemble whatever lifeform he takes energy from, seeing as he starts to "go human" once he starts in on the Earthling members of the crew...that's gotta screw with your mind-grapes.
(Not to discount the solider in peacetime problem he found himself in...it's both things together that caused his turn, IMO.)
(Not to discount the solider in peacetime problem he found himself in...it's both things together that caused his turn, IMO.)
But he also went against humans, not just aliens. I just don't understand his turn there. He fought for the human race in the past and now he wants to kill them, because they like peace and they didn't find him far away from where his ship was suppose to be. That they like peace isn't exactly something bad or unexpected. And he can't really blame the Federation for not finding the crashed ship before.
It is not even that he has a real reason to think that humans are weak now. For one humans clearly seem to dominate the Federation. Every time we saw some high ranking officials of Starfleet, humans were clearly overrepresented. The Federation also aren't extreme pacifists. The ships still have weapons. They still fight the bad guys. He was supposedly once a honourable man and now he likes to destroy a space station, on which even human children live.
And if he detests this whole coalition with aliens and was all pro-human, shouldn't he have a problem with practically turning into an alien reptile? He sucked the life force out of aliens and then kind of turned into them. He didn't seem to have a problem with that.
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They could've played that out a little more, though. I agree that becoming more human again probably led to the glimpses we saw of conflict and uncertainty in his expression in the end. But there wasn't enough of that imo.
Still... no real complaints from me. <3 Beyond
After Lin's comments about exploring philosophical differences, Krall's motivation is disappointing. Although unlike STID I don't feel sucker punched about it. I'm looking forward to my next viewing.
Someone should quiz Lin & Pegg on Krall's motivations, maybe we can draw something more out of them that was missed in the translation to screen.
Someone should quiz Lin & Pegg on Krall's motivations, maybe we can draw something more out of them that was missed in the translation to screen.
Yeah I agree his motivation got all wonky towards the end, especially when he's killing everyone indiscriminately.
Although, Terra Prime also killed humans to achieve it's objectives too, even when they have a pro-human stance. I suppose Krall thinks humans who are serving on Federation starships and stations are part of the problem too. Getting rid of them will help his goal of breaking Humanity away from the Federation.
Although, Terra Prime also killed humans to achieve it's objectives too, even when they have a pro-human stance. I suppose Krall thinks humans who are serving on Federation starships and stations are part of the problem too. Getting rid of them will help his goal of breaking Humanity away from the Federation.
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When I read their interviews about how Krall will have a valid point for his views, I also expected more. I thought maybe the Federation has while exploring unintentionally hurt his race somehow. Started a civil war on his home planet for example. Or like with the Gorn in the TOS episode, they built a base in their home territory without permission. I just expected something, where the Federation did something wrong before to give Krall real reason for his anger. That was before I knew he was originally human of course.
By the way if they go another time with a bad guy, it would be refreshing, if that bad guy would turn thanks to the crew of the Enterprise and their positive example and diplomatic skills, to the light side. That would be a positive message and it would be a different kind of win for the Enterprise crew.
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For a few seconds I actually expected this to happen when Krall saw his face mirrored in the shard of glass that drifted by during the last fight.
I quite liked that they played with that...the old, "Bad guy finally realizes he's the bad guy" routine. But lo, not so fast audience!
I quite liked that they played with that...the old, "Bad guy finally realizes he's the bad guy" routine. But lo, not so fast audience!
I think ultimately it's Idris Elba who saved the character for me. He's just a great actor and his acting in those scenes made me empathize with Krall more than his back story managed to.
He looked sad, confused, messed up.
So my explanation is that his sad back story combined with the alien tech he found just really messed with his personality and made him hateful, alienated and irrational.
I saw the movie last night, and here's my (spoiler-free) review:
Star Trek Beyond is a lot of fun and a big step up from STID. The fairly straightforward story reminded me of classic TOS episodes (in a good way) and I really liked that they took a little time to allow us to spend some quieter moments with the characters. There's quite a bit of (funny) humor in those interactions, probably thanks to Simon Pegg's work on the screenplay.
Visually, it looks even better than the two previous movies - I really like all of the new designs (the uniforms, Yorktown station, Jaylah) and Justin Lin found some cool new ways to shoot the Enterprise and other space ships.
As can be expected from a Justin Lin movie, there's a lot of action in Star Trek Beyond, and I liked some of it a lot, but I did think some of the action scenes went on quite a bit longer than they should have and became chaotic and unclear in the process. There are one or two extended fight scenes in the middle that I could have done without altogether. I'll say that the final action set piece is pretty spectacular, though!
One thing that didn't work for me was Idris Elba's villain Krall. There's an interesting idea behind the character and he has some cool moments, but his motivations never became totally clear to me and a lot of his story revolves around a rather uninspired McGuffin. It's clear that they tried to make him a new Khan (again!), but it's just not working. The thick prosthetic make-up and weird speech mannerisms didn't help, either.
I do love spending time with these versions of the classic characters, though, and some fun references to ENT (of all things) made my Trekkie heart grow bigger (although I gotta admit the "first warp 4 ship" line bugged me). I'm hoping they're going to continue making these movies and I hope they continue to be as good as this one, even though I wish they'd put a little less emphasis on fights and explosions. Then again, the more cerebral side of Star Trek that I tend to prefer will hopefully be served by the new tv show.
My rating: 4 out of 5.
Star Trek Beyond is a lot of fun and a big step up from STID. The fairly straightforward story reminded me of classic TOS episodes (in a good way) and I really liked that they took a little time to allow us to spend some quieter moments with the characters. There's quite a bit of (funny) humor in those interactions, probably thanks to Simon Pegg's work on the screenplay.
Visually, it looks even better than the two previous movies - I really like all of the new designs (the uniforms, Yorktown station, Jaylah) and Justin Lin found some cool new ways to shoot the Enterprise and other space ships.
As can be expected from a Justin Lin movie, there's a lot of action in Star Trek Beyond, and I liked some of it a lot, but I did think some of the action scenes went on quite a bit longer than they should have and became chaotic and unclear in the process. There are one or two extended fight scenes in the middle that I could have done without altogether. I'll say that the final action set piece is pretty spectacular, though!
One thing that didn't work for me was Idris Elba's villain Krall. There's an interesting idea behind the character and he has some cool moments, but his motivations never became totally clear to me and a lot of his story revolves around a rather uninspired McGuffin. It's clear that they tried to make him a new Khan (again!), but it's just not working. The thick prosthetic make-up and weird speech mannerisms didn't help, either.
I do love spending time with these versions of the classic characters, though, and some fun references to ENT (of all things) made my Trekkie heart grow bigger (although I gotta admit the "first warp 4 ship" line bugged me). I'm hoping they're going to continue making these movies and I hope they continue to be as good as this one, even though I wish they'd put a little less emphasis on fights and explosions. Then again, the more cerebral side of Star Trek that I tend to prefer will hopefully be served by the new tv show.
My rating: 4 out of 5.
I just came back from watching the movie. What a fantastic Star Trek movie. I like that all the crew had some good screentime, in particular Anton.. His role was bigger here than in the previous two movies.
Seeing the Enterprise get destroyed like that was really tormenting. I don't get how easily those swarms attacked and penetrated the shields. The Enterprise was like a piece of paper being penetrated. It was a goner the moment the nacelles was literally cut off. The low blow was the "cut at the neck".
Goosebumps when I saw the 1701-A at the end. I liked how it timelapsed the construction of the ship. I didn't really take a good look at it to be honest because I was too excited. Hoping to see the movie again soon and take a good look at it.
Also at the end, when Spock was going through Ambassador Spock's personal belongings, there was a nice photo of the original cast. Again, goosebumps.
Seeing the Enterprise get destroyed like that was really tormenting. I don't get how easily those swarms attacked and penetrated the shields. The Enterprise was like a piece of paper being penetrated. It was a goner the moment the nacelles was literally cut off. The low blow was the "cut at the neck".
Goosebumps when I saw the 1701-A at the end. I liked how it timelapsed the construction of the ship. I didn't really take a good look at it to be honest because I was too excited. Hoping to see the movie again soon and take a good look at it.
Also at the end, when Spock was going through Ambassador Spock's personal belongings, there was a nice photo of the original cast. Again, goosebumps.
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