SPOILERS!!! NEW AICN RUMORS (APRIL 30)

[F. King Daniel]

Man! Rehashing Khan?!

That's like the Batman franchise rehashing The Joker! There's NO WAY they could make that work a second time around. I mean, The Joker IS Nicholson, and...

... wait, what?

Nicholson? JACK Nicholson? You're kidding me. You mean there was a Joker after Cesar Romero?

The next thing you're going to tell me is Adam West is no longer Batman.

The difference is each time for Batman its a reset, with no acknowledgement or consequences with what goes before or after.

Adam West didn't turn up to hand the keys to the Batcave over to Keaton.

Trek, through Nimoy is at least pretending to be a constant, when it suits it.

Thats how Trek always does it - broad strokes, picking and choosing which bits to follow and which to ignore. Look at The Motion Picture - everything looks 100% different, the Klingons are unrecognizable, yet it's a continuation of TOS/TAS. Look at Zefram Cochrane - the guy in "First Contact" is nothing at all like the guy in "Metamorphosis", yet Kirk and Spock recognized him.

Voyager continues on from the prior series, despite the speed/distance ratios in that show being totally different than what had been established previously (TOS could have made their journey in a month)

 

[Trekkie2]

Trekmovie made it's assumption that the villain was going to be Khan Noonien Singh based on the actor types that had been approached prior to Cumberbatch (they were all Hispanic), just as they based their assumption that Leonard Nimoy was making as appearance as Spock Prime again because he said, "We're talking, we're talking."

None of that is true. In fact in that very "Spoiler" article Anthony made it clear what that he was basing on his information on inside sources (which TrekMovie DOES have) and also made it clear that AICN was reporting it as well.

That told him a third hispanic actor had been approached for the role. He's been tring to solidify his assumptions, but it won't come out well, not that it really matters when the truth does come out. The one thing all this has done is quieted the nastiness on the part of some more vocal posters. Thank God, because it was getting bad.

 

[Franklin]

Nicholson? JACK Nicholson? You're kidding me. You mean there was a Joker after Cesar Romero?

The next thing you're going to tell me is Adam West is no longer Batman.

The difference is each time for Batman its a reset, with no acknowledgement or consequences with what goes before or after.

Adam West didn't turn up to hand the keys to the Batcave over to Keaton.

Trek, through Nimoy is at least pretending to be a constant, when it suits it.

I think the reason fans like continutiy in TOS is because the same actors played the key roles for decades. There was always a little bit of melancholy in the movies because each (to varying degrees) dealt directly with these characters aging and the passage of time. These characters grew and changed. This also meant the fans became invested in the actors as well as the characters. Plenty of people on these boards four years ago were adamant about how "Shatner is the only Kirk," and so on.

Batman, Superman, Spiderman, and the other comic heroes aren't allowed to age. We don't want to see a Superman in his 50's fighting a Lex Luthor who's in his 60's. But that was Kirk and Khan in TWOK, and it was part of what made the story so compelling.

I've always said that the way Orci and Kurtzman were able to maintain continutity with the entire Trek timeline and yet give themselves (and fans) a clean canvass on which to paint new stories of our heroes in their primes was brilliant. Comparatively, using the reset button would've been lazy and treating the characters like comic book characters.

(For what it's worth, it's said Adam West was offered a cameo as Thomas Wayne in Burton's 1989 movie. He turned it down because he believed Burton's version was too dark -- and some have said also because he was still aching for not being asked to be Batman, even though he was 60.)

 

[Captaindemotion]

I've always said that the way Orci and Kurtzman were able to maintain continutity with the entire Trek timeline and yet give themselves (and fans) a clean canvass on which to paint new stories of our heroes in their primes was brilliant. Comparatively, using the reset button would've been lazy and treating the characters like comic book characters.

Agreed. Totally agreed. I can't agree with this enough.

Have I made it clear that I agree with you on this point?

(For what it's worth, it's said Adam West was offered a cameo as Thomas Wayne in Burton's 1989 movie. He turned it down because he believed Burton's version was too dark -- and some have said also because he was still aching for not being asked to be Batman, even though he was 60.)

Hmmm. I'd heard that he suggested the cameo to the movie makers, saying 'look at the publicity it would but you.' They turned him down. Let's face it, if you remember that summer, the one thing Batman didn't need was any more publicity.

(Not sayin I'm right and you're wrong, just that this is the way I heard it)

 

[Franklin]

I've always said that the way Orci and Kurtzman were able to maintain continutity with the entire Trek timeline and yet give themselves (and fans) a clean canvass on which to paint new stories of our heroes in their primes was brilliant. Comparatively, using the reset button would've been lazy and treating the characters like comic book characters.

Agreed. Totally agreed. I can't agree with this enough.

Have I made it clear that I agree with you on this point?

(For what it's worth, it's said Adam West was offered a cameo as Thomas Wayne in Burton's 1989 movie. He turned it down because he believed Burton's version was too dark -- and some have said also because he was still aching for not being asked to be Batman, even though he was 60.)

Hmmm. I'd heard that he suggested the cameo to the movie makers, saying 'look at the publicity it would but you.' They turned him down. Let's face it, if you remember that summer, the one thing Batman didn't need was any more publicity.

(Not sayin I'm right and you're wrong, just that this is the way I heard it)

Yeah. There's a bunch of versions of what really happened with Adam West and the 1989 Batman movie floating around. Hard to know which are accurate any more.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Assumptions?

I thought the rumors were "confirmed". Meaning there was inside information or something.

So it was all just rehash and exaggeration of things we already knew?

Yep, as I and others have said, there's been no *actual* confirmation of anything

 

[Trekkie2]

Assumptions?

I thought the rumors were "confirmed". Meaning there was inside information or something.

So it was all just rehash and exaggeration of things we already knew?

Yep, as I and others have said, there's been no *actual* confirmation of anything

Got my knickers all twisted up....for nothing.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think the reason fans like continutiy in TOS is because the same actors played the key roles for decades.

What percentage of fans would that be? Not necessarily a large one.

If early plans for TMP had taken hold, there might have been a Paul Newman & Robert Redford pairing, and Walter Koenig in cameo as Chekov's father.

This also meant the fans became invested in the actors as well as the characters. Plenty of people on these boards four years ago were adamant about how "Shatner is the only Kirk," and so on.

And yet plenty of these nostalgic fans - myself included - thoroughly enjoyed JJ's movie and can't wait to see the next one. Its support on Rotten Tomatoes is still overwhelming positive, and Paramount was thrilled by the box office receipts and public and critical acclaim.

We also survived the recasting of Saavik, Cochrane, Dainmon Bok, the Borg Queen and Senator Cretak perfectly well.

Batman, Superman, Spiderman, and the other comic heroes aren't allowed to age. We don't want to see a Superman in his 50's fighting a Lex Luthor who's in his 60's.

Really? Fans of the highly-regarded "The Dark Knight Returns" comic mini-series would disagree.

But that was Kirk and Khan in TWOK, and it was part of what made the story so compelling.

Perhaps. Although they didn't actually get to meet again, face-to-face.

... using the reset button would've been lazy...

There's nothing "lazy" about screenwriting, otherwise we'd all be doing it.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Of course they are........even though they confirmed it, just like the other spoilers mentioned....in that same article.

Hmm, well, they say this at the very end:

But of course, like with the Nimoy report, these reports are still officially rumors as nothing has been confirmed by the studio or anyone associated with the film.

Always an out...

Nope. Anything unconfirmed is *officially* a rumor. A common disclaimer, means nothing.

Everyone involved knows its Khan, and have for months.

Hmm.

 

[RAMA]

must....have....teaser....trailer....by July!

RAMA

 

[Gojira]

must....have....teaser....trailer....by July!

RAMA

I certainly hope so!

A question: are they done with principle photography and shooting the movie yet?

 

[F. King Daniel]

They finished on the 8th - four years to the day after STXI was released.

I'm hoping that, on Sunday, exactly one year from STXII release, we'll learn the film's name.

 

[Therin of Andor]

They finished on the 8th - four years to the day after STXI was released.

Four years? Wow! Sometimes it seems like only yesterday! That film is still so vivid in my mind!

 

[F. King Daniel]

Whoops! I meant three years. Sorry.

But, yeah - it feels like only yesterday.

 

[Franklin]

I think the reason fans like continutiy in TOS is because the same actors played the key roles for decades.

What percentage of fans would that be? Not necessarily a large one.

If early plans for TMP had taken hold, there might have been a Paul Newman & Robert Redford pairing, and Walter Koenig in cameo as Chekov's father.

This also meant the fans became invested in the actors as well as the characters. Plenty of people on these boards four years ago were adamant about how "Shatner is the only Kirk," and so on.

And yet plenty of these nostalgic fans - myself included - thoroughly enjoyed JJ's movie and can't wait to see the next one. Its support on Rotten Tomatoes is still overwhelming positive, and Paramount was thrilled by the box office receipts and public and critical acclaim.

We also survived the recasting of Saavik, Cochrane, Dainmon Bok, the Borg Queen and Senator Cretak perfectly well.



Really? Fans of the highly-regarded "The Dark Knight Returns" comic mini-series would disagree.

But that was Kirk and Khan in TWOK, and it was part of what made the story so compelling.

Perhaps. Although they didn't actually get to meet again, face-to-face.

... using the reset button would've been lazy...

There's nothing "lazy" about screenwriting, otherwise we'd all be doing it.

As I remember it, I'm almost certain the whole Newman-Redford thing was just a joke by Roddenberry that caught traction as a rumor. If recasting the crew for TMP were no big deal, then why go out of the way to write out Spock and create an entirely new character when Nimoy first turned down the project? Just recast Spock.

I also respectfully disagree about how many fans have an emotional attachment to the TOS characters because the same actors played them from prime until retirement. It was so important, the stories even reflected their changes.

True, some couldn't even let go when the characters were finally recast for ST09. That was my point about the "Shatner is the only Kirk" remark. Myself, I was thrilled to see the characters "reborn." However, I would've been less thrilled if TVH (for example) had different actors in the lead roles in 1986.

By comparison, recasting minor supporting characters like Cochrane or Saavik or the Borg Queen shouldn't be that big a deal to anyone. Those should be easy to "survive." I'd steer clear of anyone who boycotted TSFS because Saavik was recast. That person has issues.

I also seriously doubt that a major action-adventure motion picture featuring a 53 year-old Superman (or Batman) going up against a 55 year-old Luthor (or Joker) would make $300 million at the box office.

What I meant was it would've been lazy (as in easier) to say, I have a great Trek story, all we need to do it say "screw it" to all that went before. The fact that the writers worked within basically the same canonical constraints that all Trek writers before have done was making their job more difficult than it needed to be. They were the first writers not at all bound anything that came before. They had the first blank slate since 1966. Instead, their respect for what came before is why they created the event that ignited the entire conflict in the ST09 story.

 

[monkeyd]

FYI boborci posted over on trekmovie today "No rehashes. No remakes." Probably had been dying to say that during the hundreds of "OMG it's a remake/rehash!!" posts. Wonder why he is doing it now...

Okay but he didn't say it isn't "Khan", right?

Trekmovie made it's assumption that the villain was going to be Khan Noonien Singh based on the actor types that had been approached prior to Cumberbatch (they were all Hispanic), just as they based their assumption that Leonard Nimoy was making as appearance as Spock Prime again because he said, "We're talking, we're talking." I'd like to see him back but I think he's only been consulting with the writing staff. No one has come out and confirmed these rumors. So we're left to wonder exactly who the villain is, again. And we probably won't find out in July with the next Comic Con because a trailer won't be ready, darn it. The villain might be a Khan, but I doubt that it will be KNS.

Well, on the off chance that it is THE Khan, these (paps, sorry) pics might make people feel a tiny bit better, not about the white or anything, but--obviously no Montalban--can't call him exactly scrawny
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ict-Cumberbatch-shows-off-toned-physique.html

 

[CorporalClegg]

I've recently found myself hoping to see a Chris Pine "Khaaaaaaaan!"

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Trekmovie made it's assumption that the villain was going to be Khan Noonien Singh based on the actor types that had been approached prior to Cumberbatch

No.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Trekmovie made it's assumption that the villain was going to be Khan Noonien Singh based on the actor types that had been approached prior to Cumberbatch

No.

Why not go all out and make a genuine contribution by providing us with an alternative explanation?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

...an alternative explanation?

None is required in order to dismiss a bit of fabricated, self-reassuring speculation.

If at some point I have a reason to take further interest in your opinion on this matter, I'll alert you.