Spoiler! DONT HATE ME! I liked FC

[kimc]

To you rabid fans of Voyager I wish to remind you it is only a TV show and a hobby for most of us here. A little moderation never hurt anyone.

There are precious few spaces Voyager fans can express their appreciation of the show without drawing trolls or flames. Moderation may be a wise policy in Gen Trek or Trek Lit but as far as I'm concerned here in the Voyager forum fans are free to gush freely.

As for criticism there are ways to do it without flaming or trolling. An example of this would be GodBen's "A Hater Revisits Voyager" thread.

 

[Frazzled]

Gush gush gush......... I love Voyager...... more gushing! Boy was I glad to find this forum! You've probably saved me a few friendships now I can stop making people's eyes glaze over and gush here......

I didn't love FC. But some people who also love Voyager do like FC. That's ok as far as I'm concerned as long as we're free to express our opinions respectfully!

Speaking of which I found myself wanting to read Unworthy in October. I still don't like FC because I didn't like focussing on Janeway's death, so I'd check the spoilers first before attempting unworthy. But as long as it's not full of long discourses about grief and doesn't use the phrase 'Janeway's/Kathryn's death' too often I would like to read it (secondhand of course I'm still not supporting pocket books!).

The reason? I like Cambridge and I like Eden and would like to get to know them a bit better. Oh my goodness me. I don't know what has happened to my head. I usually can't be bothered at all with new characters. Kirsten, what have you done to me?

That in no way detracts from my huge dislike of Janeway dying. There was room for all of them as far as I'm concerned, in fact more ongoing interaction between them would've been totally fantastic

So maybe at the end of the year I'll be starting the 'Don't hate me - I liked Unworthy' thread People can disagree politely

 

[KimMH]

To you rabid fans of Voyager I wish to remind you it is only a TV show and a hobby for most of us here. A little moderation never hurt anyone.

There are precious few spaces Voyager fans can express their appreciation of the show without drawing trolls or flames. Moderation may be a wise policy in Gen Trek or Trek Lit but as far as I'm concerned here in the Voyager forum fans are free to gush freely.

As for criticism there are ways to do it without flaming or trolling. An example of this would be GodBen's "A Hater Revisits Voyager" thread.

I never said Voyager fans oughtn't gush. I've gushed here myself. My point is that my honest opinion is as valid as anyone else's here. And yes, I did flame in rely to a less than moderate post in defense of myself. I did not intend to upset the boat. Chase me away with pitchforks people, and you'll have one less poster to show your cause solidarity with. How logical is that? And where have I critcized Voyager here?

 

[kimc]

To you rabid fans of Voyager I wish to remind you it is only a TV show and a hobby for most of us here. A little moderation never hurt anyone.

There are precious few spaces Voyager fans can express their appreciation of the show without drawing trolls or flames. Moderation may be a wise policy in Gen Trek or Trek Lit but as far as I'm concerned here in the Voyager forum fans are free to gush freely.

As for criticism there are ways to do it without flaming or trolling. An example of this would be GodBen's "A Hater Revisits Voyager" thread.

I never said Voyager fans oughtn't gush. I've gushed here myself. My point is that my honest opinion is as valid as anyone else's here. And yes, I did flame in rely to a less than moderate post in defense of myself. I did not intend to upset the boat. Chase me away with pitchforks people, and you'll have one less poster to show your cause solidarity with. How logical is that? And where have I critcized Voyager here?

I'm not sure where you're seeing pitchforks. Did anyone say your opinion was not valid? As for the flaming it doesn't matter whether you initiate or respond - let the mods handle it. This is true not just here in the Voyager forum but any of the others as well.

Let's move back to topic. If you have any additional questions please feel free to pm me.

 

[Lynx]

My favorite is "The Black Shore" by Greg Cox. I remember when I read it the first time. It was so exciting that I couldn't stop reading it so I read it from beginning to end with only a short break to make more coffee!

I read The Black Shore recently and I quite enjoyed it. However, Janeway's characterization in that book was total crap.

Was it? In what way?

Personally I think that "The Black Shore" is one of the books where there is good characterization of all characters.

Rigt now I'm re-reading "Bless The Beasts". A good book but also a book where there are many errors and Janeway acts a bit weird. The same can be said about "Ragnarok" but it can be explained by the fact that the author of that book hadn't watched a single episode when he wrote the book. There are other examples in other books where one or two characters are not quite as they are in the TV series.

Anyway, I would be interested in how you find Janeway out of character in "The Black Shore". I may have missed something.

 

[Galekarens]

Re: Unworthy, to me (just MHO, no flames, please), any further "Voyager" books without Janeway in it somehow (besides MAYBE people thinking of her) are not really Voyager - as she was/is the glue that held the whole thing together, & it will not be the same without her (even tho I care about the other, original characters, too). New characters can't replace 7 years, 100+ episodes of a television series, where Janeway was the LEAD character & it's heart. Ms. Editor just. doesn't. get. it. GS.

 

[Lynx]

Re: Unworthy, to me (just MHO, no flames, please), any further "Voyager" books without Janeway in it somehow (besides MAYBE people thinking of her) are not really Voyager - as she was/is the glue that held the whole thing together, & it will not be the same without her (even tho I care about the other, original characters, too). New characters can't replace 7 years, 100+ episodes of a television series, where Janeway was the LEAD character & it's heart. Ms. Editor just. doesn't. get. it. GS.

I agree. A "Voyager Relaunch" without Janeway would be like Christmas without Santa Claus or Rolling Stones without Mick Jagger or Keith Richards. They can call it whatever they want but without Janeway it will only be a fake "Voyager Relaunch".

Not to mention that other good characters are missing as well.

 

[Inyx]

Never liked Janeway's insufferable moralizing. I was glad to see her go. That said, I am not at all thrilled about her replacement.

 

[exodus]

Re: Unworthy, to me (just MHO, no flames, please), any further "Voyager" books without Janeway in it somehow (besides MAYBE people thinking of her) are not really Voyager - as she was/is the glue that held the whole thing together, & it will not be the same without her (even tho I care about the other, original characters, too). New characters can't replace 7 years, 100+ episodes of a television series, where Janeway was the LEAD character & it's heart. Ms. Editor just. doesn't. get. it. GS.

So what's your opinion of DS9 continuing without Sisko?

 

[Frazzled]

Sisko wasn't properly dead, despite falling off a gigantic cliff into flames the wormhole aliens promised to return him at some point, and he got to speak to his girlfriend to reassure her of that.

So although he's not there for the first relaunch books it was just a matter of time.

Janeway, on the other hand, despite being rescued by the omnipotent Q who has been seen to create functioning human bodies from nothing, apparently isn't going to come back because TPTB have decreed so.

 

[JB2005]

^She's exactly as dead as Sisko was and times change...Janeway'll be back, they struck her down and she will return more powerful than you can possibly imagine...

Seriously though I can imagine in the future Janeway returning she's not as dead as Data (who categorically stated B4 was not him )

 

[brcarthey]

Re: Unworthy, to me (just MHO, no flames, please), any further "Voyager" books without Janeway in it somehow (besides MAYBE people thinking of her) are not really Voyager - as she was/is the glue that held the whole thing together, & it will not be the same without her (even tho I care about the other, original characters, too). New characters can't replace 7 years, 100+ episodes of a television series, where Janeway was the LEAD character & it's heart. Ms. Editor just. doesn't. get. it. GS.

i understand your sentiment. i really do. hell, i even joined a campaign to write pocket books to voice my displeasure in janeway's death.

however, janeway loomed large with the voyager sphere as most captains do in trek. at times she even overshadowed the other characters not just b/c of her position but also b/c of her character. i don't want to say she stifled the others, but IMO it certainly seemed difficult to give the other characters much growth beyond the influence of janeway.

with FC, the latter half of this book begins this. it was a really good read, written by a self-proclaimed voyager and janeway fan. the reader got lots of janeway in the first half as well as great flashback scenes in the second half. but, it was also in the second half that we saw some growth and maturity with most of the other main voyager characters (tuvok and neelix excluded). and for those that keep saying that now seven and chakotay are also being written out, that's simply false. KB has specifically addressed this issue with some posters and said they will still figure prominently in her next book.

with the crew going back to the DQ, they'll probably eventually meet up with neelix. so that only leaves janeway and tuvok (and yes, ok, lynx even kes) out of the original crew who won't be in the upcoming adventures for the foreseeable future. unfortunately, beyond "unworthy" we don't know when the next voyager book will be written.

 

[JB2005]

with the crew going back to the DQ, they'll probably eventually meet up with neelix. so that only leaves janeway and tuvok (and yes, ok, lynx even kes) out of the original crew who won't be in the upcoming adventures for the foreseeable future. unfortunately, beyond "unworthy" we don't know when the next voyager book will be written.

Tuvok's happy on Titan! Neelix is Happy on his asteroid, Kes is Happy on Ocampa and Janeway's happy everyone's making a hoo-haa about her...

 

[Tachyon]

My favorite is "The Black Shore" by Greg Cox. I remember when I read it the first time. It was so exciting that I couldn't stop reading it so I read it from beginning to end with only a short break to make more coffee!

I read The Black Shore recently and I quite enjoyed it. However, Janeway's characterization in that book was total crap.

Was it? In what way?

Personally I think that "The Black Shore" is one of the books where there is good characterization of all characters.

Anyway, I would be interested in how you find Janeway out of character in "The Black Shore". I may have missed something.

I need to revisit the book. I read it last Easter and I remember thinking while reading it that "wow - this dude cannot write Janeway to safe his life". Honestly - that is the main thing I remember from it. And, of course, that the story was good, even if there was a flaw in Janeway's characterization, which I was unable to ignore.

Luckily this man has not written another Voyager book and I hope that he never will. This time it was somewhat tolerable, because Janeway didn't have a big role in the story.

 

[Galekarens]

Ok, well, I MIGHT read (most of) FC if I can get it used & cheap - just have to keep saying to myself "It's just a book....". But, for all the "good" there might be for other character growth, Janeway was killed off because someone just decided it. So now they are spinning how creative they can be without KJ around. Me thinks (I know, just MHO) they could have been just as creative w/ Janeway still alive IF someone hadn't first just decided to get rid of her (could have had her left behind in the AQ w/ little communication while Chakotay & Voyager went back to the DQ, for example- then she could have just been a minor character for awhile & others could have developed more). I mean, Picard loomed large over the Enterprise crew, but, for example, Riker was given his own ship & his own set of books, & they didn't have to kill JLP off to do that. But, no, someone just decided to fry Janeway, a character who meant so much to many fans. So, let them try to replace the heart of Voyager, fine, I don't have to support such arbitraryness in any future endeavors (& if others want to, then well, I know I'm just 1 little fan). GS. PS, thanks, tho, for any thoughtful responses & sorry if I'm just repeating things, but am just that hurt, sigh.

 

[Lynx]

I read The Black Shore recently and I quite enjoyed it. However, Janeway's characterization in that book was total crap.

Was it? In what way?

Personally I think that "The Black Shore" is one of the books where there is good characterization of all characters.

Anyway, I would be interested in how you find Janeway out of character in "The Black Shore". I may have missed something.

I need to revisit the book. I read it last Easter and I remember thinking while reading it that "wow - this dude cannot write Janeway to safe his life". Honestly - that is the main thing I remember from it. And, of course, that the story was good, even if there was a flaw in Janeway's characterization, which I was unable to ignore.

Luckily this man has not written another Voyager book and I hope that he never will. This time it was somewhat tolerable, because Janeway didn't have a big role in the story.

Well, we do have different opinions about Greg Cox and "The Black Shore".

I love the book and would have liked to see Cox write some more Voyager books.

In fact, I'm very pleased with the Voyager season 1-3 books. Most of them are great even if there are some really odd things and contradictions in them.

http://lynx677.110mb.com/bookreviews.html

 

[Lynx]

Ok, well, I MIGHT read (most of) FC if I can get it used & cheap - just have to keep saying to myself "It's just a book....". But, for all the "good" there might be for other character growth, Janeway was killed off because someone just decided it. So now they are spinning how creative they can be without KJ around. Me thinks (I know, just MHO) they could have been just as creative w/ Janeway still alive IF someone hadn't first just decided to get rid of her (could have had her left behind in the AQ w/ little communication while Chakotay & Voyager went back to the DQ, for example- then she could have just been a minor character for awhile & others could have developed more). I mean, Picard loomed large over the Enterprise crew, but, for example, Riker was given his own ship & his own set of books, & they didn't have to kill JLP off to do that. But, no, someone just decided to fry Janeway, a character who meant so much to many fans. So, let them try to replace the heart of Voyager, fine, I don't have to support such arbitraryness in any future endeavors (& if others want to, then well, I know I'm just 1 little fan). GS. PS, thanks, tho, for any thoughtful responses & sorry if I'm just repeating things, but am just that hurt, sigh.

I have to admit that I do find the comments about how they had to kill off Janeway in order to write a good story very annoying. I don't buy it at all.

I mean, they have wasted one of Star Trek's best characters. Wouldn't it have been better to have her around? Janeway is one of the easiest and best characters to write about. They could have come up with so many good stories in which Janeway could have had an important role.

I don't see how Janeway's "death" would make the other characters better in any way and I don't see how the stories would be any better either.

 

[JB2005]

I don't see how the stories would be any better either.

Maybe if you read them you'd understand...

 

[Tachyon]

I don't see how Janeway's "death" would make the other characters better in any way and I don't see how the stories would be any better either.

I didn't see it either before I read Full Circle. I love Janeway, I'm most likely one of the biggest Janeway stans around here, so I hated to admit that both Chakotay and Tom were better written in this book than ever before.

I found Full Circle the best Voyager book to date, even though I still prefer Janeway being alive. But it was not decisicon made in Full Circe, which simply follows the established chain of events created in all Trek books during recent years.

And that's about the all I'm gonna comment on this FC business. I'm so over this "FC drama" by now. *leaves*

 

[Lynx]

I don't see how the stories would be any better either.

Maybe if you read them you'd understand...

Now why should I buy and read something which I know will only annoy me? That wouldn't be that smart, would it?

I don't think that stories who are built on grief, gloom and doom and where the main character in the series has been killed off can be better or more worth to read than the seasons 1-3 Voyager books I like to read.