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Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?

HotRod

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
I have to admit that I've never understood the hate certain elements of the fandom have towards Alex Kurtzman.

Yes, Discovery turned out to be a rather controversial show. People either seem to love it or hate it, and that seems to be the number one source of hatred directed at Kurtzman.

The thing is, from what I understand, by most accounts it was Bryan Fuller's ideas that proved to be the most controversial elements of the series. Things like the Klingon redesign, the rule about no cylindrical nacelles, the whole Klingon War, etc. These were supposedly all part of Bryan Fuller's concept for the show, and by the time he left, too much time and money had been spent for them to reverse course.

By season 2, there were clear efforts by Kurtzman to "fix" the series, which was again hindered by more behind the scenes drama by showrunners Berg and Harberts being fired for alleged inappropriate behavior towards the writers.

It was Kurtzman putting Michelle Paradise in charge that finally seemed to put the series on track, and while moving to the distant future had its ups and downs, the next 3 years were decent enough Star Trek.

So there's Discovery out of the way. The show that Kurtzman was heavily involved in but not entirely to blame for how it turned out.

Beyond that, in terms of controversial shows, we have Picard, another show that certainly had a decent enough first season, even if didn't stick the landing. It had a second season that was heavily hindered by Covid 19, and a third season that while I didn't really enjoy, clearly haits s fans.

I also won't pay any mind to the nonsensical notion that the third season was made with virtually zero involvement of Kurtzman. That's not how shows are made, and it certainly wasn't some valiant effort by Terry Matalas to make a series in spite of Alex Kurtzman.

Moving beyond the controversial series, we have shows like Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks and Prodigy. Three series with seemingly near universal praise. Granted, two of those three have ended, with Lower Decks getting five years and Prodigy getting two. Some seem to blame Kurtzman for the shows getting the axe, but I believe that decision was made far above his head.

Can't judge Section 31 or Academy yet as I haven't seen them, but Academy has certainly assembled one of the most star studded cast we've seen in a Trek production. Hopefully that bodes well.

So yeah, why the intense vitriol directed towards Kurtzman? And yes I do remember that it's pretty much a Trekkie tradition to always hate the people in charge, but this still feels like it goes beyond that.

Not a single month goes by that you don't hear wishful rumors of him being fired. There are countless podcast put out by some of the more negative elements of the fandom that rather disgustingly wish him harm or even death.

I don't understand it. Especially when his track record hasn't been especially bad, at least in my opinion. Yes a couple shows have been controversial. But some shows have been genuinely excellent. I personally put Strange New Worlds as being some of the best Star Trek ever made, and I have Alex Kurtzman to thank for that as he was the one who brought in Akiva Goldsman. Same for all those fans of Picard season 3. Was it not Kurtzman who hired Terry Matalas?

I actually kind of think he's done an all right job and I hope he stays in charge for many years to come.

Thoughts?
 
Certain elements in the fandom need to blame someone for "Trek no longer being Trek". In their minds, this coincides with Kurtzman taking the reigns of the franchise. It doesn't matter that he's not personally writing every single show - he's the guy in charge of Trek, he gets blamed for everything.

The fact that it all seems so blown out of proportion is due to social media and YouTube, etc. If social media in its current form had existed back in the ENT days we would have seen the same level of vitriol hurled at Bermaga for "ruining Star Trek". We got a glimpse of what was to come when the latest guy to hate was JJ Abrams back in the days of the Kelvin movies. The level of vitriol rose with the amount of social media available.
 
I have to admit that I've never understood the hate certain elements of the fandom have towards Alex Kurtzman.

Yes, Discovery turned out to be a rather controversial show. People either seem to love it or hate it, and that seems to be the number one source of hatred directed at Kurtzman.

The thing is, from what I understand, by most accounts it was Bryan Fuller's ideas that proved to be the most controversial elements of the series. Things like the Klingon redesign, the rule about no cylindrical nacelles, the whole Klingon War, etc. These were supposedly all part of Bryan Fuller's concept for the show, and by the time he left, too much time and money had been spent for them to reverse course.

By season 2, there were clear efforts by Kurtzman to "fix" the series, which was again hindered by more behind the scenes drama by showrunners Berg and Harberts being fired for alleged inappropriate behavior towards the writers.

It was Kurtzman putting Michelle Paradise in charge that finally seemed to put the series on track, and while moving to the distant future had its ups and downs, the next 3 years were decent enough Star Trek.

So there's Discovery out of the way. The show that Kurtzman was heavily involved in but not entirely to blame for how it turned out.

Beyond that, in terms of controversial shows, we have Picard, another show that certainly had a decent enough first season, even if didn't stick the landing. It had a second season that was heavily hindered by Covid 19, and a third season that while I didn't really enjoy, clearly haits s fans.

I also won't pay any mind to the nonsensical notion that the third season was made with virtually zero involvement of Kurtzman. That's not how shows are made, and it certainly wasn't some valiant effort by Terry Matalas to make a series in spite of Alex Kurtzman.

Moving beyond the controversial series, we have shows like Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks and Prodigy. Three series with seemingly near universal praise. Granted, two of those three have ended, with Lower Decks getting five years and Prodigy getting two. Some seem to blame Kurtzman for the shows getting the axe, but I believe that decision was made far above his head.

Can't judge Section 31 or Academy yet as I haven't seen them, but Academy has certainly assembled one of the most star studded cast we've seen in a Trek production. Hopefully that bodes well.

So yeah, why the intense vitriol directed towards Kurtzman? And yes I do remember that it's pretty much a Trekkie tradition to always hate the people in charge, but this still feels like it goes beyond that.

Not a single month goes by that you don't hear wishful rumors of him being fired. There are countless podcast put out by some of the more negative elements of the fandom that rather disgustingly wish him harm or even death.

I don't understand it. Especially when his track record hasn't been especially bad, at least in my opinion. Yes a couple shows have been controversial. But some shows have been genuinely excellent. I personally put Strange New Worlds as being some of the best Star Trek ever made, and I have Alex Kurtzman to thank for that as he was the one who brought in Akiva Goldsman. Same for all those fans of Picard season 3. Was it not Kurtzman who hired Terry Matalas?

I actually kind of think he's done an all right job and I hope he stays in charge for many years to come.

Thoughts?

kOHinlB.gif


:lol:
 
In 2010 they were making JJ Abrams urinal targets and posting photos in hate groups on Facebook. They were posting videos destroying Star Trek 2009 DVDs.

Kurtzman just gets told he's secretly fired every few months by some borderline special needs people on YouTube. He's got it easy:lol:
 
I think this is probably it. The internet certainly does have a way of empowering certain negative views and those who hold them. I think I'm just sick of the negativity.

Social media algorithms reward engagement, and you don't get enough of that if you agree with something or make nice videos where you give facts and clear-headed reviews. You get the most out of it when you make videos that make those who already have negative views click on them AND also draw in those who are on the fence by giving them seemingly valid stuff from "sources" and with "rumors" that will make them go "whoa, what a jerk this Kurtzman guy must be". It's a whole industry by now. I'm seeing the exact same thing in the Dune fandom right now, with slightly altered protagonists and premises but the tactics are the exact same. It's everywhere. Kurtzman is just one of the people these YouTubers and their army of raging followers target.

And you also have to take into account that these YouTubers have to keep their audience entertained. They need the next rage-bait video as soon as the rage in the comments on their latest video has died down a little. So, they constantly have to keep up this cycle of "rage-video, outrage in the comments, next rage-video, outrage...". That's another reason why they either create clickbait videos with more and more outrageous claims and rumors regarding Kurtzman and/or they just rinse and repeat stories they've had before, such as "he has been fired", "they did a screen test and audiences walked out", "the studio is unhappy and has threatened to kill the project", etc etc. It all pops up again and again and their rage-baited followers don't even notice it anymore because they're too busy with fuming all the time.
 
Oh, happy new year, mes amis, I hope you have started 2025 in a good way. I can't complain. Concerning the whole Kurtzmann-Situation, I say here, what I already said on the SFDebris-Forum - at least he's willing to change his format. If I would've been in charge, I had smiled and said "Oh, so you don't like Michael as main character? That's sad. And you know what? Next year, I'm going to introduce Kirk - who falls in love with Michael. She breaks his heart at the end of the season, explaining, why he is such a Schürtzenjäger in TOS." And I would've said "Wenn alle mich das können, was Ihr mich könnt, käme ich gar nicht mehr zum sitzen" (if everyone could do that, what you can do, I would never be able to sit down) - or maybe I'd used the "Götz-From-Berlichingen"-Quote, which means basically the same thing. In the end, I'm glad, that I'm just a fanfic-dude, while Kurtzman makes the big money. ^^
 
Let me preface this by saying anyone that "hates" an actor, writer, or producer over a TV show has problems. Sadly, those people exist. A lot of times their hate boils down to whining about the "woke" message of Nu-Trek. And no one should be hated because they made a TV series in a way that you don't like. The people who get to that level of emotion over Star Trek should seek psychological help.

With that being said... There are legitimate criticisms of the choices that have been made with these shows. And I can understand why there's a segment of Trek fandom that doesn't like the direction that Kurtzman has implemented. Basically it boils down to that many of these series are versions of Star Trek that many fans either don't recognize, don't like, or feel doesn't capture the spirit of Star Trek.

And when there's genuine excitement and online petitions for something like Star Trek: Legacy, that doesn't get greenlighted. But somehow a hotel sitcom on Risa gets the go-ahead instead?

Prime example of why some of Kurtzman's choices are divisive: The Section 31 movie.

They reportedly spent around $100+ million making Section 31, and there's little to no excitement online for it, even though you have an Academy Award winning actress headlining it. The negative ratio for the trailer over at YouTube is awful. Even on this board, in the forum dedicated to discussing it on "Future of Trek," if the poll is anything to go by, there's misgivings about it among the people here.

Then add in that even some of the actors involved with Section 31 think it's "not the Star Trek people want."
“I’m terrified of how it’s going to be received, because it’s not the Trek people want. The Trek that people want, the Trek that we all want, is just 1,000 more episodes of TNG. Everyone’s always furious that they’re not getting more TNG, whilst at the same time, when TNG came out, everybody hated it. So this is going to come along and it’s not going to feel like any Trek that they’ve ever seen.“​
 
And when there's genuine excitement and online petitions for something like Star Trek: Legacy, that doesn't get greenlighted. But somehow a hotel sitcom on Risa gets the go-ahead instead?
Legacy not being greenlighted probably has far more to do with the fact it'd be a show set on board an Enterprise while there's already a show set on board an Enterprise. Combine that with the financial issues that Paramount's going through and I think you can understand why they potentially chose the cheaper alternative that is the "Resort Show." Plus it fills a comedy void that's been left by Lower Decks.
Then add in that even some of the actors involved with Section 31 think it's "not the Star Trek people want."
I think what he's trying to say with this comment is that the Star Trek fans aren't usually fans of change. He's right in that there is a segment of the fandom that would love to be spoon fed nothing but TNG like shows and that if it were up to them we'd be on season 37 of The Next Generation.
 
But what is the spirit of Trek?
For me, I feel like some of these shows care more about action than worldbuilding. And at that point it just becomes so generic action sci-fi and nothing about it makes it distinctive as Star Trek.

Sometimes it becomes a situation where an hour of Star Trek is more pew-pew-pew than having an interesting, meaningful debate within a science-fiction context that connects to the human condition.

The finale for Star Trek: Discovery opens with a 20-ish minute fist fight that must have cost a fortune in visual effects, as the characters slide between different realities. BUT.. the discussion about what to do with the technology that the entire season leads up to lasts less than 5 minutes.

When the actor from Section 31 argues that people want TNG, I think there's a part of the audience that feels this version of Trek is just superficial, and not thoughtful in the way the old shows were in how it treated the concepts and ideas.
 
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