Seven of Kes

[exodus]

In other words...what...they should put the Voyager continuity in an alternate timeline where they never returned home and Kes never left? (confused)

Seriously, I was hoping for a bit more than just "put everything back the way it was"...like, how they would credibly do so.

Not exactly.

They could have Voyager and it's crew as some sort of Elite Force in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants where they could be assigned to certain important or dangerous missions. All that would take place some time after "Endgame". Of course it would be possible to include Kes, Neelix and Tuvok in the crew as well.

exodus wrote:

The under lying motivation behind doing that would be profit.
Character's like Neelix & Kes aren't big enough fan favorites.
Due to it, there's no profit to be made from them.
So a writer or publisher isn't going to print a story they don't feel they get a return on. It costs money to print a book. A company has to make that money back from the books sales.

But in that case, why are they including characters like Rand, Chekov, Uhura, Nurse Chapel LaForge, Nog, Rom, Jake Sisko and some others in the books? They aren't as popular as Spock, Kirk, Picard, Kira and Riker.

And I do think that the Voager fans rather read about Neelix, Tuvok and Kes than characters who weren't in the TV series.

..but they're also not as disliked as Neelix or Kes or have you not noticed? You said it yourself, how it's not easy being a fan of a character that's an underdog. Another example: I don't mind Jar Jar Binks but I'm well aware how much he's hated, so I don't expect any stories to be told about him because he's not profitable. Companies have to go by what makes them money because if they're going to spend it on resourses to create the book, they need returns to pay for what they put into it to create it. You claim to work in the music industry, you should know this. Bands or artists that don't turn a profit get dropped from the label.

Due to Voyager having an open ended finale, fans do what to know more progressive stories about Voyager, rather than flashback ones. You just have a very different outlook than most. That's not necessarly a bad thing, if you're aware of it but it's the result of being a fan of a character that's unfortunately an underdog.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Open ended?

Seemed bolted shut to me.

They got home.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.

Not only did we not see the journey, but it was decided that the destination was more important than the last two thirds of the journey.

Imagine the uproar if they tried that with nascar or a footballgame?

The only way it was open ended was in so that no one important died.

 

[Lynx]

In other words...what...they should put the Voyager continuity in an alternate timeline where they never returned home and Kes never left? (confused)

Seriously, I was hoping for a bit more than just "put everything back the way it was"...like, how they would credibly do so.

Not exactly.

They could have Voyager and it's crew as some sort of Elite Force in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants where they could be assigned to certain important or dangerous missions. All that would take place some time after "Endgame". Of course it would be possible to include Kes, Neelix and Tuvok in the crew as well.

exodus wrote:

The under lying motivation behind doing that would be profit.
Character's like Neelix & Kes aren't big enough fan favorites.
Due to it, there's no profit to be made from them.
So a writer or publisher isn't going to print a story they don't feel they get a return on. It costs money to print a book. A company has to make that money back from the books sales.

But in that case, why are they including characters like Rand, Chekov, Uhura, Nurse Chapel LaForge, Nog, Rom, Jake Sisko and some others in the books? They aren't as popular as Spock, Kirk, Picard, Kira and Riker.

And I do think that the Voager fans rather read about Neelix, Tuvok and Kes than characters who weren't in the TV series.

..but they're also not as disliked as Neelix or Kes or have you not noticed? You said it yourself, how it's not easy being a fan of a character that's an underdog. Another example: I don't mind Jar Jar Binks but I'm well aware how much he's hated, so I don't expect any stories to be told about him because he's not profitable. Companies have to go by what makes them money because if they're going to spend it on resourses to create the book, they need returns to pay for what they put into it to create it. You claim to work in the music industry, you should know this. Bands or artists that don't turn a profit get dropped from the label.

Due to Voyager having an open ended finale, fans do what to know more progressive stories about Voyager, rather than flashback ones. You just have a very different outlook than most. That's not necessarly a bad thing, if you're aware of it but it's the result of being a fan of a character that's unfortunately an underdog.

I don't think that Kes is particularily disliked by the Voyager fanbase. In my previous post, I was referring to a small group of fans who take every opportunity to trash the character (and the actress), not the entire Voyager fanbase.

Neelix may be disliked by some fans but he and Kes are part of the Voyager story and should therefore be in those stories. And what about Tuvok? He isn't disliked either but is out of the Voyager books.

Jar-Jar Binks may be hated by many Star Wars fans but I'm sure that he is showing up in some books. The same with Wesley Crusher who was hated by many Star Trek fans. But what I know, he can still show up in books.

I don't think that any company who would produce and sell Star trek Voyager books would lose any money on having Kes and Neelix in the books. There would still be enough space for Janeway, Chakotay Paris and the others too. It's not about having Kes as the main character in each and every book.

As for the music business, you're right. But I've seen some tragicomical examples of company greed and stupidity when successful bands have been dropped for some silly reason, just to show up on another label with a best-selling album.

 

[exodus]

I don't think that Kes is particularily disliked by the Voyager fanbase. In my previous post, I was referring to a small group of fans who take every opportunity to trash the character (and the actress), not the entire Voyager fanbase.

*sigh*

If the amount of people that dislike Kes were that small & the Kes fans were as abundant as you believe, then you'd be getting your way about having her restored and put back into the series as a regular cast member and you wouldn't be here continuing to complain about it every chance you get. She'd have merchedise for all those Kes fans because it would prove she's marketable and Kes fans wouldn't have to photoshop her into pictures or video games.

Kes is your favorite and that's fine but don't exaggreate her importance to others.
Even the poll here has 30 to 17 in favor of her removal.
That's a huge margin, one the studio and publishers are very much aware of.
The facts don't lie.

 

[DonIago]

As long as we don't start talking about the Kes inflatable dolls...

 

[Mach5]

Seven of Nine was the single best thing that happened to that show...

Just my

 

[exodus]

As long as we don't start talking about the Kes inflatable dolls...

 

[Lynx]

I don't think that Kes is particularily disliked by the Voyager fanbase. In my previous post, I was referring to a small group of fans who take every opportunity to trash the character (and the actress), not the entire Voyager fanbase.

*sigh*

If the amount of people that dislike Kes were that small & the Kes fans were as abundant as you believe, then you'd be getting your way about having her restored and put back into the series as a regular cast member and you wouldn't be here continuing to complain about it every chance you get. She'd have merchedise for all those Kes fans because it would prove she's marketable and Kes fans wouldn't have to photoshop her into pictures or video games.

Kes is your favorite and that's fine but don't exaggreate her importance to others.
Even the poll here has 30 to 17 in favor of her removal.
That's a huge margin, one the studio and publishers are very much aware of.
The facts don't lie.

Well, first of all, she can't be restored and brought back into the series because the series is out of production.

As for the merchandise, there were Kes items produced when she was on the show. As for the others, I don't think there are any merchandise for any of them in these days.

As for the photoshopping, well that proves that Kes fans do have skill and imagination!

The true game fans are those who makes the add-ons which gives the game the icing to the cake.

As for the poll here, it doesn't prove that Kes is disliked since the question is about who the people who vote in the poll prefer, Seven or Kes. Some of those who have voted may prefer Seven but also like Kes.

Not to mention that there are characters in the Star trek series and in other series as well who have been really disliked or ignored by the fans but still you find them in books, episodes and as different sort of merchandise too.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I think Kes fans should be content with the fan literature that is available.

 

[exodus]

I don't think that Kes is particularily disliked by the Voyager fanbase. In my previous post, I was referring to a small group of fans who take every opportunity to trash the character (and the actress), not the entire Voyager fanbase.

*sigh*

If the amount of people that dislike Kes were that small & the Kes fans were as abundant as you believe, then you'd be getting your way about having her restored and put back into the series as a regular cast member and you wouldn't be here continuing to complain about it every chance you get. She'd have merchedise for all those Kes fans because it would prove she's marketable and Kes fans wouldn't have to photoshop her into pictures or video games.

Kes is your favorite and that's fine but don't exaggreate her importance to others.
Even the poll here has 30 to 17 in favor of her removal.
That's a huge margin, one the studio and publishers are very much aware of.
The facts don't lie.

Well, first of all, she can't be restored and brought back into the series because the series is out of production.

As for the merchandise, there were Kes items produced when she was on the show. As for the others, I don't think there are any merchandise for any of them in these days.

As for the photoshopping, well that proves that Kes fans do have skill and imagination!

The true game fans are those who makes the add-ons which gives the game the icing to the cake.

As for the poll here, it doesn't prove that Kes is disliked since the question is about who the people who vote in the poll prefer, Seven or Kes. Some of those who have voted may prefer Seven but also like Kes.

Not to mention that there are characters in the Star trek series and in other series as well who have been really disliked or ignored by the fans but still you find them in books, episodes and as different sort of merchandise too.

Then be appreciative of all that you have.

 

[Lynx]

I think Kes fans should be content with the fan literature that is available.

Why?

When characters like The Doctor, Kim, Nog, Ro Laren, Naomi Wildman and even Kim's fiancee Libby can be found in current books. Why can't the Kes fans have their favorite in the books when even less important characters from the series are there?

On the other hand, I do prefer to read some of the Kes fanfiction on the net (including my own) to the current Voyager books. At least I know that there are no character destruction in the fanfic stories.

 

[Anthony Sabre]

Let me put it this way: Seven of Nine was the reason I gave up on Voyager. I've never seen any one character so drastically change a Trek series.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I want to read Ro Laren Nog slash fiction.

You have to won.... Just had an idea for a new thread.

Maybe tomorrow.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Why can't the Kes fans have their favorite in the books

Be careful for what you wish for.... look what they did to Admiral Janeway in those books!

 

[Lynx]

Why can't the Kes fans have their favorite in the books

Be careful for what you wish for.... look what they did to Admiral Janeway in those books!

You're absolutely right in your statement!

I know that it's naive and downright stupid of me to even mention a possible return of Kes in some upcoming Voyager book, due to the "death and destruction trail" which those books have taken during the last years.

I'm also aware that Kes could be the perfect victim for further destruction. A character already dumped and destroy would be perfect to finally destroy in order to create "drama". Sometimes I'm a bit surprised when it comes to those writers. When it's about to restore or save a character from destruction, then there are all sorts of obstacles and an almost exaggerated respect for "canon". But when it comes to killing off, ruining and destroying a character, then there are no obstacles or limits at all.

And the fans, who cares about them? They are only milk cows.

So I'm well aware of the danger and to be honest, the last thing I want is to see Kes show up in one of those current Voyager books. I almost heard the bells toll when I read about the bogus Voyager's curent expedition to the Delta Quadrant with captain No-no in charge. The mentioning of Neelix showing up gave me an uneasy feeling. Who knows what will happen next? I mean, if they can wipe out the captain, then theres no limitations when it comes to character destruction.

So maybe Miss Chicken was right in her assumption that the Kes fans should be happy with what we got in the fanfiction stories. To be honest, I'm perfectly happy with most of them, my own stories most of all.

But to quote John Lennon, maybe I'm just a dreamer and not the only one. I can't help having this dream about some distant future where all the main characters from the series are to be found in the books. Those characters are simply too good to be destroyed or dumped.

 

[kimc]

So maybe Miss Chicken was right in her assumption that the Kes fans should be happy with what we got in the fanfiction stories.

Personally I think the mishandling of characters leads to more fanfiction then there would normally be. For example, there were a ton of J/C stories after "Endgame" aired as writers took up the challenge to "get it right".

 

[Guy Gardener]

Can you fix the title of the thread?

I suspect that it's supposed to be "Kes OR Seven" not "Kes OF Seven."

because otherwise it's Borg derision suggesting that Kes is a subset of Seven, and not a fictional character in her own right.

 

[Itachi]

I didn't like Seven at all. She was interesting in season 4 because yeah she was a borg gaining back her humanity, but as the show went on they just over did things with her, it seemed like the show was no longer about Voyager and her crew it was just about Seven.

 

[Ensign Johnson]

They couldn't very well keep Kes because she'd have to start getting old. I think Seven is a better character than Kes anyway. I can think of more Seven of Nine episodes I really liked than Kes episodes.
I like Seven for her sarcasm (that's my story and I'm sticking to it). Kes wasn't as sarcastic.

 

[exodus]

They couldn't very well keep Kes because she'd have to start getting old. I think Seven is a better character than Kes anyway. I can think of more Seven of Nine episodes I really liked than Kes episodes.
I like Seven for her sarcasm (that's my story and I'm sticking to it). Kes wasn't as sarcastic.

Yeah, I loved Tuvok & Seven both for that trait.