Seven of Kes
- Thread starter Udat
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Do you think the trade off for Kes for Seven was worth it?! 
If you asked me by the end of Season 4, I would have said yes. But on reflection of the whole series, I think I would have prefered it if they stuck with Kes, because quite frankly, I just did not like the direction the Seven character took. She just bugged me as the seasons went on, what with her relentless speeches about being severed from the collective, the screentime she had and the way she just expresses anger all the time. Seven just... bored me.
You know the funny thing? I'm not sure. I'd love to say I would definitely think so if they'd traded Kim for Seven instead, but I do love Timeless just the way it is.
Without knowing what direction the series would have gone in had Kes remained, I can't give a firm answer.
Without knowing what direction the series would have gone in had Kes remained, I can't give a firm answer.
Yes, absolutely.
There is no major character on Star Trek that I disliked more than Kes. She was just so sickly sweet and her voice annoyed me.
There is no major character on Star Trek that I disliked more than Kes. She was just so sickly sweet and her voice annoyed me.
I choose Other, they could of easily had kept her and Killed of Harry, which is what they orginally intended to do, until that dawm TV guide issue that had him as one of the sexist males on TV??? 
If she had stayed and killed Harry, it could of provided some good character growth for Janeway, on the true cost of her sometimes 'insane' choices
-that they can have TRUE costs, that you can not re-set. Esspecially considering how protective she was of Harry. Also the Kes / Tuvok relationship could of devolped nicely along with her powers, that alone could of produced some good ep's. They could of also taken a serious exploration of her 7 yr life span and how to deal with in, far better than "Fury" turned out. All this and they still could of had the Seven ep we knew. To me it would of been a win-win. I would of also liked to of seen how a Kes / Seven scene would play out, can you imagine a Kes / Doctor / Seven scene...ohh the humanity.
-The Shatinator
If she had stayed and killed Harry, it could of provided some good character growth for Janeway, on the true cost of her sometimes 'insane' choices -that they can have TRUE costs, that you can not re-set. Esspecially considering how protective she was of Harry. Also the Kes / Tuvok relationship could of devolped nicely along with her powers, that alone could of produced some good ep's. They could of also taken a serious exploration of her 7 yr life span and how to deal with in, far better than "Fury" turned out. All this and they still could of had the Seven ep we knew. To me it would of been a win-win. I would of also liked to of seen how a Kes / Seven scene would play out, can you imagine a Kes / Doctor / Seven scene...ohh the humanity.-The Shatinator
If Fury was any any real indication as to where they would have taken Kes, then definitely.
I really didn't see much use for the Kes character anyway. I mean I liked her OK and all, but the whole relationship with Neelix thing was just dreadful. She really didn't have enough of a back story to base many episodes around her, or at least not to the level that Seven had.
Great tradeoff in my opinion.
I really didn't see much use for the Kes character anyway. I mean I liked her OK and all, but the whole relationship with Neelix thing was just dreadful. She really didn't have enough of a back story to base many episodes around her, or at least not to the level that Seven had.
Great tradeoff in my opinion.
Absolutely.
I don't have a problem with Kes specifically but the Ocompa is one of the most ridiculous races ever conceived in Star Trek.
Humanoid but mature in a year with a lifespan of less than ten? Carry babies in a pouch on their back? Almost god-like psionic abilities? Right.
I don't have a problem with Kes specifically but the Ocompa is one of the most ridiculous races ever conceived in Star Trek.
Humanoid but mature in a year with a lifespan of less than ten? Carry babies in a pouch on their back? Almost god-like psionic abilities? Right.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Other.
They should've found a way to bring Tasha Yar back and on Voyager, and possibly as a Borg.
They should've found a way to bring Tasha Yar back and on Voyager, and possibly as a Borg.
I don't think they should have dumped Kes just to bring on Seven. Sure she was an interesting character at first and Ryan is a good actress but the borg became way overdone and Seven was reduced to Mary Sue status by the finale.
I'm sure plenty of folks can argue against it from either a preferential POV, or how they view it improved the series by having Seven on, but, certainly in the former vein, no, can't say I personally cared for the addition,at cost of the other, but, I would have had no problems with having both on STV.If one likes Seven, fine, you won't hear me bashing her publicly.And, yes, to be fair, they created another 'Spock-like' char. for the show, a commentator on the human condition, something Neelix(poor, maligned fellow he seems to so often be here) and Kes were initially intended to help serve as.Berman says they failed in being able to find something further for Kes, well, then, the fault is there.It does stink, that one poll had some impact, or has often been said so, for keeping Wang vs. Lien, not that I didn't like Kim(Another targeted STV crewmember in some circles) It shouldn't have had to come down to that, but, there ya go.
I liked both characters. But i think kes should have stayed tbh, I loved the bond janeway and kes had together for example the times kes would go to janeways quarters to talk and the times janeway hugged kes when she was down ect. But i thought janeway had a very different approach to seven, don't get me wrong she treated seven and kes the same, but janeways was more of a mentor to seven in regards to developing her in to a human and not a borg.! i like both actress and characters but i think Jennifer did a wonderful job and its a shame paramount let her go and choose Jeri because she would boost ratings, which i just dont find very fair. They should of got rid of wang, kes and 7 could have been more developed than kim. But at the end of the day it really dosent matter because it was mainly focused around janeway 7 and the doctor.
Yes, I think it was a good trade off.
By mid-season 3, it was becoming fairly apparent the writers didn't really know what to do with Kes. They weren't really tackling the fact that she only had 7 years to live, and they were trying to really push her in a Mary Sue direction where she was going to develop these super elite mental powers. Kes was never meant to be a Mary Sue character.
I think, if the writers had kept her, they would have completely destroyed her.
As it stood, they removed her before they could do any more damage, and I'm okay with that.
By mid-season 3, it was becoming fairly apparent the writers didn't really know what to do with Kes. They weren't really tackling the fact that she only had 7 years to live, and they were trying to really push her in a Mary Sue direction where she was going to develop these super elite mental powers. Kes was never meant to be a Mary Sue character.
I think, if the writers had kept her, they would have completely destroyed her.
As it stood, they removed her before they could do any more damage, and I'm okay with that.
No, definitely not.
Kes was a much better character and the show was also much better in seasons 1-3 when all characters had their share of the spotlight.
Joeman wrote:
"Fury" was an ugly exception. It was made when the character had already been dumped for more than two seasons, there was no other reason to come up with that episode than to finally destroy the character for some weird reason.
Kes was a much better character and the show was also much better in seasons 1-3 when all characters had their share of the spotlight.
Joeman wrote:
"Fury" was an ugly exception. It was made when the character had already been dumped for more than two seasons, there was no other reason to come up with that episode than to finally destroy the character for some weird reason.
Kes and Seven on the show Together is the way they should have gone.
Initially, yes. Kes would have been an ideal person to help Seven acclimatise, and may have even provided conflict by questioning, from a non-Starfleet perspective, whether severing Seven from the collective was the right thing to do. However it was obvious that the writers had run out of ideas for Kes, and her sickly-sweetness did grate on my nerves sometimes. Still, I would have rather seen Neelix leave than Kes.
Can't talk about Kes without bringing up that ep. All that time of not having to write for Kes, and that's the best they could come up with.
I don't think that the writers had run out of ideas because they managed to come up with good Kes episodes almost until the last minute of her stay on Voyager, not to mention a book by one of the writers which was published after Kes's "departure" and contained a good Kes story.
They thought they had to dump someone to make room for Seven and when they couldn't dump Kim because of that poll in People's magazine, they dumped Kes instead and had to come up with all those silly excuses for the bad treatment of the character and the actress.
Other.
I like both characters, so they should have replaced Kim with Seven. Of course, it they had gotten rid of Garrett Wang, they probably would have faced charges of only doing it out of racism (never mind the fact that Kim was the worst acted and worst developed character on the show). It's the same reason why they most likely could never have gotten rid of Mayweather on ENT (even though he was that show's worst acted and least developed character).
I would have loved to see the Kes/Tuvok relationship developed further. Kes/The Doctor would have also been awesome to continue, especially with The Doctor becoming a teacher to Seven the way Kes was his teacher (Kes could have become the wizened old sage to both The Doctor and Seven by the end).
I like both characters, so they should have replaced Kim with Seven. Of course, it they had gotten rid of Garrett Wang, they probably would have faced charges of only doing it out of racism (never mind the fact that Kim was the worst acted and worst developed character on the show). It's the same reason why they most likely could never have gotten rid of Mayweather on ENT (even though he was that show's worst acted and least developed character).
I would have loved to see the Kes/Tuvok relationship developed further. Kes/The Doctor would have also been awesome to continue, especially with The Doctor becoming a teacher to Seven the way Kes was his teacher (Kes could have become the wizened old sage to both The Doctor and Seven by the end).
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