Eh, I didn't like the way Wesley was treated at all in this episode and the Indian stuff was just... ugh.
Revisiting ST-TNG...
- Thread starter Warped9
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Eh, I didn't like the way Wesley was treated at all in this episode and the Indian stuff was just... ugh.
So, do you think TNG episodes that are low in energy need Red Bull or Monster?
Hi, everyone.
"Attached" ***
Picard and Crusher are taken prisoner by a paranoid group and are linked telepathically.
This wasn't great, but it was okay. I found the alien Kes and Prit to be comical in their paranoia. There was a degree of charm in Picard and Crusher sharing each other's thoughts unexpectedly. They finally bring the smoldering feelings between Crusher and Picard to the fore...and then turn away from it. And at least the story moved along.
Picard and Crusher are taken prisoner by a paranoid group and are linked telepathically.
This wasn't great, but it was okay. I found the alien Kes and Prit to be comical in their paranoia. There was a degree of charm in Picard and Crusher sharing each other's thoughts unexpectedly. They finally bring the smoldering feelings between Crusher and Picard to the fore...and then turn away from it. And at least the story moved along.
I pretty much agree precisely. The episode would have been much better without the comically over-the-top Kes/Prit races and they were treated with a more natural or serious tone.
Riker? Not the diplomat is he? Why was he such a highly sought-after commanding officer again? Isn't Starfleet's primary aim diplomacy, exploration and expansion into other cultures?
Riker? Not the diplomat is he? Why was he such a highly sought-after commanding officer again? Isn't Starfleet's primary aim diplomacy, exploration and expansion into other cultures?
Attached was one of those episodes that you just asked "Why?".--the forgettable Kes-Prit plot, the way they brought the Crusher/Picard relationship forward then sh*t all over it with that horrible final scene.
Not good at all.
Not good at all.
)
"Force Of Nature" ****
Two scientists claim warp drive is damaging the fabric of space.
Star Trek meets Greenpeace. I waffled on this one. Ultimately I'll nudge it to good because they were trying to tell a meaningful story. But I feel the ending was just a little too pat, a little too final rather than more credibly open ended. I also have to say these forehead-of-the-week designs looked ridiculous---they had to have been able to come up with something better.
Still, the story moved along and never really got bogged down. I also identified to some extent with the female scientist because I know such people who come across as so impatient with most anyone who questions them no matter how rationally.
Two scientists claim warp drive is damaging the fabric of space.
Star Trek meets Greenpeace. I waffled on this one. Ultimately I'll nudge it to good because they were trying to tell a meaningful story. But I feel the ending was just a little too pat, a little too final rather than more credibly open ended. I also have to say these forehead-of-the-week designs looked ridiculous---they had to have been able to come up with something better.
Still, the story moved along and never really got bogged down. I also identified to some extent with the female scientist because I know such people who come across as so impatient with most anyone who questions them no matter how rationally.
I thought Force of Nature was one of the most boring and plodding episodes in Trek history. I wouldn't give it more than 1.5 stars--this just was so glacially paced and you could tell they didn't have enough material hence the three or four plots featured-the Ferengi, Spot's training, the terrorists, the jeopardy threat with the science ship trapped inside an anomaly that Ent must rescue which by this stage in the series was getting very old.
I didn't mind the idea that warp drive was damaging space but this was one poorly executed episode.
I didn't mind the idea that warp drive was damaging space but this was one poorly executed episode.
The technobabblest, most useless, most ignored, most mundane, most bottled show of the series and...
Wha....
Not that I'm going to derail this thread with a sidetrack, but, um, this isn't in the least a controversial or rare opinion. The guest cast alone on Deep Space Nine makes the cast of TOS (except the Big Three who are all fantastic) look like amateurs. Are you really going to argue with me that Rene Auberjonois is a weaker actor than, say, James Doohan? Or that Nana Visitor is a weaker actor than Nichelle Nichols? That would just be silly.
Anyway, for once, you're rating an episode too highly. Force of Nature is boring and stupid. In my own emotion-based opinion, of course.
Not that I'm going to derail this thread with a sidetrack, but, um, this isn't in the least a controversial or rare opinion. The guest cast alone on Deep Space Nine makes the cast of TOS (except the Big Three who are all fantastic) look like amateurs. Are you really going to argue with me that Rene Auberjonois is a weaker actor than, say, James Doohan? Or that Nana Visitor is a weaker actor than Nichelle Nichols? That would just be silly.
You realize, of course, that acting styles and expectations changed dramatically in the intervening 40 years between TOS and DS9, right?
I've been thinking about this more and as such I'm finding myself in agreement...to a point. The ending of this episode bothers me. It wraps up just too quickly and with too much a sense of finality as if everything has been decided. And you're right that there are things thrown into it (the Ferengi, Data's cat and Laforge's competition) that add absolutely nothing. I did say I waffled on this. That and a good dinner earlier this evening perhaps made me feel a bit generous...
On further reflection then I'd have to downgrade it to fair rather than good.
"Force Of Nature" ***
"Inheritance" ****
Data meets a woman who claims to be his mother.
Data meets his mommy? How appropriate to watch on Mother's Day.
Okay at heart there's a fair story here and while I don't think it's as good as "The Offspring" it's still decent enough. I think it's a little slow to start, but for me it really picks up when Data begins to suspect this woman isn't who she claims to be...or believes herself to be. The resolution is an interesting bit of misdirection.
Not bad.
This story does add to what is actually a long visited idea in Trek all the way back to TOS' "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and "Requiem For Methuselah" through TMP and then TNG's "Measure Of A Man," "The Schizoid Man," "The Offspring" and then "The Quality Of Life." Essentially what defines being alive, conscious and sentient. Julianna Soong is really very much like the android Roger Corby and it's really only the terminology used that's different. The other distinction is that Corby knew what he was and Julianna doesn't.
One idea that is apparent (except perhaps for TMP) is that machine intelligence seems to be recognized mostly when it's in human or humanoid form. Outside of that then not so much. Data had to fight to prove the exocomps in "The Quality Of Life" were valid lifeforms. And Kirk certainly had few if any qualms about destroying Landru ("Return Of The Archons") and Nomad ("The Changeling") even though they both appeared to be highly sophisticated AI's in their own right. Of course the term AI didn't exist in the '60s (not mainstream anyway) and so the term supercomputer was used, but it seems to have been intended to be pretty much the same thing. Or perhaps not...perhaps there is indeed a fine line between a highly sophisticated computer and genuine AI.
Data meets a woman who claims to be his mother.
Data meets his mommy? How appropriate to watch on Mother's Day.
Okay at heart there's a fair story here and while I don't think it's as good as "The Offspring" it's still decent enough. I think it's a little slow to start, but for me it really picks up when Data begins to suspect this woman isn't who she claims to be...or believes herself to be. The resolution is an interesting bit of misdirection.Not bad.
This story does add to what is actually a long visited idea in Trek all the way back to TOS' "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and "Requiem For Methuselah" through TMP and then TNG's "Measure Of A Man," "The Schizoid Man," "The Offspring" and then "The Quality Of Life." Essentially what defines being alive, conscious and sentient. Julianna Soong is really very much like the android Roger Corby and it's really only the terminology used that's different. The other distinction is that Corby knew what he was and Julianna doesn't.
One idea that is apparent (except perhaps for TMP) is that machine intelligence seems to be recognized mostly when it's in human or humanoid form. Outside of that then not so much. Data had to fight to prove the exocomps in "The Quality Of Life" were valid lifeforms. And Kirk certainly had few if any qualms about destroying Landru ("Return Of The Archons") and Nomad ("The Changeling") even though they both appeared to be highly sophisticated AI's in their own right. Of course the term AI didn't exist in the '60s (not mainstream anyway) and so the term supercomputer was used, but it seems to have been intended to be pretty much the same thing. Or perhaps not...perhaps there is indeed a fine line between a highly sophisticated computer and genuine AI.
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Inheritance I wasn't all that crazy about. I didn't like the twist that she was an android instead of just being Soong's ex-wife--it seemed to exist to make Data feel like he wasn't alone but we've been down that road with Lore and Lal. And it led to what wanted to be a patented TNG moral dilemma requiring the senior staff to assemble and ponder what to do--again something that worked well in earlier seasons but seemed tacked on and dull here.
The episode was a little schmaltzy, the jeopardy plot wasn't really necessary and while enjoyable early on in the series the concert scenes were a little too much and felt like boring padding. That said there were a few isolated decent character moments and I just adore Finola Flannigan. But did we really need another Soong appearance yet again in the holodeck just after something similiar in Birthright the last year.
I'd give it about 2 or 2.5 stars--very pedestrian in my opinion. It's just not a great TNG episode even though it clearly has all the trappings to make you think it is.
The episode was a little schmaltzy, the jeopardy plot wasn't really necessary and while enjoyable early on in the series the concert scenes were a little too much and felt like boring padding. That said there were a few isolated decent character moments and I just adore Finola Flannigan. But did we really need another Soong appearance yet again in the holodeck just after something similiar in Birthright the last year.
I'd give it about 2 or 2.5 stars--very pedestrian in my opinion. It's just not a great TNG episode even though it clearly has all the trappings to make you think it is.
"Inheritance," like "Attached" and "Dark Page" before it, is the sci-fi story that mainstream audiences can get into because it deals with subjects in a way that makes them accessible. To that end they can come across as somewhat pedestrian because things are simplified to be easily understood.
And, yes, I agree that everyone being in on Data's decision and the recurring bit with classical music is by now gotten old, but I didn't find it horribly so.
If I were to be really cynical then I could argue that introducing Julianna Soong was a rabbit pulled out of nowhere, but unless I'm mistaken I can't recall anything in previous episodes that genuinely precludes her from being there when Data was created.
In all candor sometimes I go into an episode with a measure of cynicism only to find myself pleasantly surprised. And sometimes I go into a story with some optimism only to find myself somewhat disappointed.
And, yes, I agree that everyone being in on Data's decision and the recurring bit with classical music is by now gotten old, but I didn't find it horribly so.
If I were to be really cynical then I could argue that introducing Julianna Soong was a rabbit pulled out of nowhere, but unless I'm mistaken I can't recall anything in previous episodes that genuinely precludes her from being there when Data was created.
In all candor sometimes I go into an episode with a measure of cynicism only to find myself pleasantly surprised. And sometimes I go into a story with some optimism only to find myself somewhat disappointed.
Yes, it did. Nomad was intelligent, but only to a point. It was really just a highly sophisticated computer, but not sentient in the way Roger Corby, Rayna, Data and Julianna Soong or perhaps even the Exocomps were. Although it wasn't explained in the same way Rayna (TOS' "Requiem For Methuselah") may have failed or "died" in a similar fashion as Lal (TNG's "The Offspring") in that she hadn't yet developed enough to handle the conflicting feedback of her emotions.
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