Merritt Butrick/David Marcus

[Kryton]

Well, he did die of complications from AIDS....

In fairness, I'll point out again there's more than one way to get HIV/AIDS, and even then there are several different possibilities.

Of course there are...though he didn't seem to be a junkie so much...despite his role on TNG.

I don't care if he was gay or not...it was Ground Zero time for AIDS back then. It had just been finally isolated and named in 1981 or so. It's only a coincidence that it became prevalent amongst homosexuals back than...it could have just as well have been a mostly straight affliction. And of course, unchecked blood transfusions and shared narcotics needles did nothing to slow the spread.

But it is what it is. For what it's worth, I was personally a bit shocked to learn Jm. J. Bullock was gay (I mention him as a sitcom actor working around the same time TWOK was in release). Still don't care that he is...and I'm pleased he seems to be managing his affliction quite well.

 

[Maurice]

God, I hate all these stupid ugly unsubstantiated rumors. Not everything is cause and effect. They did not kill off David Marcus because Merritt Butrick was ill. How would they have known? Did he walk in and throw a medical report on a producer's desk?

The poor guy got ill and died. It has nothing to do with the character he played in two movies, or why he didn't appear in more sequels.

Sheesh.

 

[Praetor]

Well, he did die of complications from AIDS....

In fairness, I'll point out again there's more than one way to get HIV/AIDS, and even then there are several different possibilities.

Of course there are...though he didn't seem to be a junkie so much...despite his role on TNG.

I don't care if he was gay or not...it was Ground Zero time for AIDS back then. It had just been finally isolated and named in 1981 or so. It's only a coincidence that it became prevalent amongst homosexuals back than...it could have just as well have been a mostly straight affliction. And of course, unchecked blood transfusions and shared narcotics needles did nothing to slow the spread.

Right, well said. I didn't mean to accuse you of accusing him of anything, and I'm sorry if it was perceived otherwise.

But it is what it is. For what it's worth, I was personally a bit shocked to learn Jm. J. Bullock was gay (I mention him as a sitcom actor working around the same time TWOK was in release). Still don't care that he is...and I'm pleased he seems to be managing his affliction quite well.

You were? Dude, I think I knew Jm J. Bullock was gay before I knew I was.

God, I hate all these stupid ugly unsubstantiated rumors. Not everything is cause and effect. They did not kill off David Marcus because Merritt Butrick was ill. How would they have known? Did he walk in and throw a medical report on a producer's desk?

The poor guy got ill and died. It has nothing to do with the character he played in two movies, or why he didn't appear in more sequels.

Sheesh.

That was why I asked for a source. I didn't think it was substantiated myself.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I think it was in the ST:TNG Companion that he had AIDS.

 

[Praetor]

Thanks, Peach.

 

[Kryton]

But it is what it is. For what it's worth, I was personally a bit shocked to learn Jm. J. Bullock was gay (I mention him as a sitcom actor working around the same time TWOK was in release). Still don't care that he is...and I'm pleased he seems to be managing his affliction quite well.

You were? Dude, I think I knew Jm J. Bullock was gay before I knew I was.

Okay, I had deep suspicions. I didn't know many gay people before then and only developed a real sense of "gaydar" since meeting my good friend Scott back in the day.

Best senses of humor evar: Gay folk. Funniest people in the WORLD!

 

[Praetor]

Yeah, I guess we do seem to have something of an unfair advantage when it comes to detecting ourselves.

The funniest, eh? Crap, Kryton, now you've set a high precedent for me to live up to whenever I post.

...Starting after this one.

 

[CoveTom]

Agreed. From what I read, this was again an instance of Harve Benett's theory of 'story karma.' Apparently Bibi Besch who played Carol Marcus asked why she wasn't coming back, and Bennett explained that if she came back, she would have to be the one to take the 'protomatter' hit and apparently they felt it was better that David be the sacrificial lamb.

Funny thing is, it still works out to undermining Besch's character from TWOK. She was intimately involved in the creation of the Genesis device from its inception. In fact, in TWOK we get the impression she is in charge of the project.

So that leaves only two possibilities. Either she was in on David's scheme to "solve" their problems using protomatter, making her unethical, or she didn't realize that's what he was doing, making her incompetent.

Either way, the whole "protomatter" subplot in TSFS undermines two perfectly good characters we had come to like in TWOK.

 

[Praetor]

Agreed. She had to have know about it. I'd argue that he wasn't old enough to have done much more than assist her. (It's rather amazing that he'd made doctor by that age anyway.)

Wouldn't it have been simpler to say the device just didn't work, hence the planet's instability, than to cast specific blame on anyone? The freakin' thing was already completely reconfiguring the molecular matrix of a planet, and this planet apparently congealed out of a nebula to start with.

 

[cardinal biggles]

There's a chapter in John Vornholt's TNG novel Genesis Wave: Book One where Picard reads all the top secret reports about Project Genesis from over the years. Carol files a report sometime in the immediate aftermath of TSFS where she takes the blame on herself for David's use of protomatter, and declares the project a failure. Several decades later, a Starfleet scientist takes another look at the project and decides that it was precisely what you mentioned above — the device went off inside a nebula and the Genesis Planet was unstable because it was formed out of congealed nebula dust — that caused the problems. He suggests that if they were to build another device exactly the way the Marcuses built it, and tested it properly (e.g. the dead moon from Carol's presentation), it would probably work.

 

[CobraCommander]

In regards to Merritt Butrick, RIP. I wished that he and Saavik would have had more of a relationship in ST III. His death would have had more of an impact and it would have been memorable. Robin Curtis also bothered me in that film because her Saavik was too wooden. Cobra

 

[Praetor]

There's a chapter in John Vornholt's TNG novel Genesis Wave: Book One where Picard reads all the top secret reports about Project Genesis from over the years. Carol files a report sometime in the immediate aftermath of TSFS where she takes the blame on herself for David's use of protomatter, and declares the project a failure. Several decades later, a Starfleet scientist takes another look at the project and decides that it was precisely what you mentioned above — the device went off inside a nebula and the Genesis Planet was unstable because it was formed out of congealed nebula dust — that caused the problems. He suggests that if they were to build another device exactly the way the Marcuses built it, and tested it properly (e.g. the dead moon from Carol's presentation), it would probably work.

Fascinating. Perhaps I should read these books. I often wondered what Carol's reactions were after all this - her project blew up, her son died, her son's father flew off into space with a dead Vulcan and became a wanted man.

In regards to Merritt Butrick, RIP. I wished that he and Saavik would have had more of a relationship in ST III. His death would have had more of an impact and it would have been memorable. Robin Curtis also bothered me in that film because her Saavik was too wooden. Cobra

On a side note, I wonder how much of Robin's Saavik seemed 'wooden' because she played it with less half-Romulan subtext and how much was just her?

 

[Therin of Andor]

I wonder how much of Robin's Saavik seemed 'wooden' because she played it with less half-Romulan subtext and how much was just her?

She was directed that way. Nimoy would say to her, "In the next take, play it colder. Colder!"

 

[Praetor]

Thanks, Therin. Robin got the short end then.

 

[cardinal biggles]

I've only seen Robin Curtis in a few things — her two performances as Saavik, her role in the TNG two-parter "Gambit," where she played another Vulcan, and a first-season episode of classic Knight Rider as a single mom on the run from her asshole ex with their daughter caught in the middle. If she was going to show any emotional range, it would have been in that performance, and I didn't find her all that impressive.

 

[Praetor]

Well, honestly I hadn't seen her in anything non-Trek myself.

Merritt, by contrast, was pretty good, IMO.

 

[NathanielM]

I think it was in the ST:TNG Companion that he had AIDS.

I did not imply an accusation, He announced it and it was public knowledge for the time.

It was confirmed complication of HIV/AIDS... I don't think he was Gay... Not all people who have this are GAY... Hetro men and women have it too...

As for Jim J. Bullock... I was not aware fo that... Doesn';t matter he was a pretty funny guy.... Great series (too close for comfort!)

Nathaniel

 

[Praetor]

I'm actually a bit relieved to know that there are others who remember him as I browse across the web. I've also found some nice images of him from various sources.

I was just reading here and apparently he once attended a convention where the workers hadn't been paid to do the setup and he actually paid them money from his own pocket. I thought that shows him as a class act.

I was also reading here that a close acquaintance says he did not use drugs but did indeed get AIDS via unprotected sex. And no, it does not specify an orientation.

The 80s sure were scary.

 

[LeadHead]

I've only seen Robin Curtis in a few things — her two performances as Saavik, her role in the TNG two-parter "Gambit," where she played another Vulcan, and a first-season episode of classic Knight Rider as a single mom on the run from her asshole ex with their daughter caught in the middle. If she was going to show any emotional range, it would have been in that performance, and I didn't find her all that impressive.

She was on an episode of Night Court during the 80's. She played scientist tha Dan tried to seduce a Little. I thought she was good. I've always liked her Saavik better than Alley's Saavik, it was more Vulcan and more believeable.

 

[Praetor]

I was thinking that it might have been interesting had Carol Marcus been the one killed on Genesis, then David blames Kirk for it and it sets up a rift between them that Kirk tries desperately to mend.