I was content with Picard's series finale

[TRON JA307020]

We knew that since First Contact.

To quote SF DEBRIS after Picard breaks the display of ENTERPRISE ships: "And somewhere, Q is laughing."

Ah. But he was dealing with the borg. The dreams and being able to hear them was affecting picard. When he breaks the display lily brings him back to his senses. After that scene we get the thoughtful Picard back. But still the higher moral that Roddenberry tried to bring to humanity the first two seasons of tng had broken down slowly from there and are all but gone now. Berma kept a lot intact and was closest to Roddenberry s vision but even he went astray occasionally. The kurtzman era even more so. The 32nd century humans seem no different than the 21st.

 

[fireproof78]

Ah. But he was dealing with the borg. The dreams and being able to hear them was affecting picard. When he breaks the display lily brings him back to his senses. After that scene we get the thoughtful Picard back. But still the higher moral that Roddenberry tried to bring to humanity the first two seasons of tng had broken down slowly from there and are all but gone now. Berma kept a lot intact and was closest to Roddenberry s vision but even he went astray occasionally. The kurtzman era even more so. The 32nd century humans seem no different than the 21st.

No. Just no. Picard opted to ripped out the Queen's head just as final spite.

It takes an evil 21st century person to assist in briefly bringing him back to his senses. There's no thoughtful speech or mindfulness here, beyond a quote from Moby Dick.

And in the Berman era we would see humans go astray all the time. Evil admirals, scientists, colonies with rape gangs, addiction, etc. Only the ENTERPRISE D sat above it all and claimed it didn't exist.

 

[FederationHistorian]

No. Just no. Picard opted to ripped out the Queen's head just as final spite.

It takes an evil 21st century person to assist in briefly bringing him back to his senses. There's no thoughtful speech or mindfulness here, beyond a quote from Moby Dick.

And in the Berman era we would see humans go astray all the time. Evil admirals, scientists, colonies with rape gangs, addiction, etc. Only the ENTERPRISE D sat above it all and claimed it didn't exist.

I’m curious as to why you think Lily is evil.

She seemed to be in a survivalist mindset. And considering her circumstances, it’s an understandable mindset to have.

 

[fireproof78]

I’m curious as to why you think Lily is evil.

She seemed to be in a survivalist mindset. And considering her circumstances, it’s an understandable mindset to have.

Because she's from the 21st century.

 

[Vger23]

I loved PIC S3. I am actually rewatching it right now (third time through) and it gets better with re-watches. I've never really understood the active dislike for it, but I can see how it might not be everyone's cup of tea.

Despite some minor storytelling flaws, which it admittedly has, the thing that stands out the most is that the performances from the original cast are tremendous, and the show hits really good emotional beats with them. I honestly think this is the best Jonathan Frakes has ever been. He almost completely steals the show as Riker. And Ed Speleers is absolutely delightful as Jack Crusher. I like him so much, I could see him as a future James Bond.

Then...my favorite character of the entire new era...we have Captain Liam Shaw. Again, perfect casting and a great performance from Todd Stashwick. If there's one thing that the latest era of Trek has done, it's given us very different takes on Starfleet captains (for better and for worse), and Shaw is definitely my personal favorite. The scene in the holodeck from "No Win Scenario" where he recounts his harrowing ordeal at Wolf 359 is the highlight of the entire season. And, in much the same way as Patrick Stewart and Alfre Woodard's "see you around, Ahab" scene hits as my favorite in FC, it shows that the best of Trek is often these well-acted, well-written dualing character scenes between great actors as opposed to the heavy action and VFX stuff.

So, I love S3 more for the character stuff and the great performances from the cast (both old and new) than purely for the execution of the plot. I find that every time I watch, I appreciate it more and more, and it brings a lot of emotion to the surface about how much I love these characters and this world.

 

[HotRod]

The scene in the holodeck from "No Win Scenario" where he recounts his harrowing ordeal at Wolf 359 is the highlight of the entire season.

I liked it better in 1975.*




*Not that I was around in 1975.

 

[Vger23]

I liked it better in 1975.*

View attachment 53868


*Not that I was around in 1975.

I had just started “being around” in 1975!

50 years goes fast!

 

[TRON JA307020]

No. Just no. Picard opted to ripped out the Queen's head just as final spite.

It takes an evil 21st century person to assist in briefly bringing him back to his senses. There's no thoughtful speech or mindfulness here, beyond a quote from Moby Dick.

And in the Berman era we would see humans go astray all the time. Evil admirals, scientists, colonies with rape gangs, addiction, etc. Only the ENTERPRISE D sat above it all and claimed it didn't exist.

It was just the cyborg at that point. No flesh. Theres always s few bad apples in a barrel. We saw crazy captains/admirals in tos and the movies. The rape gangs weren't human or the federation.

 

[Firebird]

The rape gangs weren't human

Yeah, they were human. They were the same inhabitants from the failed colony on Turkana IV that Tasha Yar came from.

 

[fireproof78]

It was just the cyborg at that point. No flesh. Theres always s few bad apples in a barrel. We saw crazy captains/admirals in tos and the movies. The rape gangs weren't human or the federation.

Yes, they were human. So were the bad admirals, captains, holo addicts, and more.

The point is the action that Picard took. The only purpose was revenge on the one who hurt him and inflict hurt. How evolved?

 

[TRON JA307020]

Yeah, they were human. They were the same inhabitants from the failed colony on Turkana IV that Tasha Yar came from.

Yes, they were human. So were the bad admirals, captains, holo addicts, and more.

The point is the action that Picard took. The only purpose was revenge on the one who hurt him and inflict hurt. How evolved?

We dont know how long the colony was put there and how long they were away from the federation on their own. My guess is if it was decades and the planet was harsh they may have reverted to more savage humans over the years. But largely the federation is peaceful and humans have grown beyond their petty and crimminal behavior. Supposedly. Maybe the borg and the dominion caused a regression to the larger human population.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I feel like when they say that humanity has evolved, they mean that society has evolved to promote and support the kind of behaviour that benefits everyone. Though the trouble with a society that gives people the freedom to follow their heart and values individual choice, is that some people go off to form doomed colonies and some individuals choose to betray their principles for the 'greater good'.

People who leave paradise to settle another world sometimes do so because they have a different philosophy of life, so human colonies can become experiments in different social systems. Like Freecloud is libertarian, Hysperia is really into ren faire etc. These places aren't necessarily going to end up with the same 'evolved humans' who have left savagery behind, which is demonstrated by Tasha Yar's failed hellworld. But once Tasha escaped to Federation society she fit right in, adopting the evolved behaviour herself.

On the other hand, when Picard was in a high stress situation and dealing with his trauma he needed help. He should've had someone like Riker or Troi to talk to, but they weren't there, so he got Lily instead and she brought him back to who he knew he should be.

 

[Tosk]

My guess is if it was decades and the planet was harsh they may have reverted to more savage humans over the years.

So...they were humans then.

 

[fireproof78]

We dont know how long the colony was put there and how long they were away from the federation on their own. My guess is if it was decades and the planet was harsh they may have reverted to more savage humans over the years. But largely the federation is peaceful and humans have grown beyond their petty and crimminal behavior. Supposedly. Maybe the borg and the dominion caused a regression to the larger human population.

Supposedly gotten past pettiness, except when Riker and bad admirals are extremely petty?

The reality is that these are just humans. They are capable of great good and great savagery. You can see a headline about two people risking lives to save one person. I see multiple videos nowadays of people running up to burning vehicles to save trapped people or intervening to help someone having a medical emergency.

Humans have a wide array of capacity and looking down on them doesn't inspire greatness.

So...they were humans then.

Yup.

Unless future humans are closer to Vulcans who suppress all emotions and revert back to their ancestral ways

 

[Firebird]

We dont know how long the colony was put there and how long they were away from the federation on their own. My guess is if it was decades and the planet was harsh they may have reverted to more savage humans over the years. But largely the federation is peaceful and humans have grown beyond their petty and crimminal behavior. Supposedly. Maybe the borg and the dominion caused a regression to the larger human population.

So, still human.

 

[TRON JA307020]

So, still human.

Maybe. Maybe they weren't. How long was the colony there for? Did they get new colonists over the decades that were not human? Was it a federation colony of all the different species that make up the federation? We just dont know.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe. Maybe they weren't. How long was the colony there for? Did they get new colonists over the decades that were not human? Was it a federation colony of all the different species that make up the federation? We just dont know.

All we saw was humans.

 

[Vger23]

As I continue my rewatch, my appreciation for the character stuff continues to grow. In particular, with Frakes as Riker.

I recall there was some fan emotion around how Riker was behaving earlier in the season, sometimes at odds with Picard and playing things with a little fear and even defeat in his eyes.

Then, in "Surrender" when Riker talks about his lingering trauma over the death of his son...and relays how in the nebula he "came face-to-face with bleakness" and hadn't felt that since "well...you know..." it was a very good emotional pay-off, and extremely well acted. In fact, it's the kind of payoff some of the other modern-era series have strived for and not been able to achieve. I attribute the success here to Frakes' performance and to the more skilled writing regarding a beloved and well-established character.

 

[CoveTom]

As I continue my rewatch, my appreciation for the character stuff continues to grow. In particular, with Frakes as Riker.

I recall there was some fan emotion around how Riker was behaving earlier in the season, sometimes at odds with Picard and playing things with a little fear and even defeat in his eyes.

Then, in "Surrender" when Riker talks about his lingering trauma over the death of his son...and relays how in the nebula he "came face-to-face with bleakness" and hadn't felt that since "well...you know..." it was a very good emotional pay-off, and extremely well acted. In fact, it's the kind of payoff some of the other modern-era series have strived for and not been able to achieve. I attribute the success here to Frakes' performance and to the more skilled writing regarding a beloved and well-established character.

Frakes is seriously underrated as an actor, IMHO, and I think he did his best work ever as Riker in Picard.

 

[FredH]

Jonathan Frakes definitely grew up to be a good actor — which is funny in a way, since back in 1987 I thought he was terrible. It’s not the first time I’ve seen an actor get so much better as they grow older, which stands to reason — more acting experience and more life experience.