Joel Revisits TOS....

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Joel_Kirk, May 16, 2012.

  1. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    I think you are confusing "destroy the planet" with destroy all of the civilization on it. The planet would still be there, but everyone would be dead, flattened by photon torpedoes and phaser strikes.
     
  2. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Actually Riley delivered that line when Spock relieved him of duty and ordered Uhura to take over his station. If anything, Riley was saying he's in favor of gender equality!

     
  3. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I stand corrected...
     
  4. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's more Scotty's reaction to the order. Kirk has no way to tell Scotty it's a bluff, which would mean that the general order itself is automatically a bluff. If so, it's possible that everybody has to play along as part of the general order but in this case this would include the crew pretending with each other. Seems unlikely...
     
  5. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can agree with that...;)
     
  6. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    No. Not like the Death Star.

    transcript
     
  7. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You'd think that a General Order like that would need to be confirmed by someone else like the self-destruct.
    Weren't those guys faking Kirk's voice anyway or was it some other episode? Anyway the voice print would at least need to be verified.
     
  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Of course, suffrage doesn't mean what the context would imply. It doesn't mean to share the work load. Suffrage means the right to vote, and universal suffrage means everybody having the right to vote in political elections (i.e., including women). This is one of the examples in Star Trek when the staff got basic vocabulary wrong, particularly in having been evidently influenced by what the words sound like they ought to mean and seemingly in an effort to sound educated while failing on both accounts, which includes the infamous* "zoological gardens will furnish a variety of plant life" line in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie".**


    * - Or, if not infamous, then egregious.

    ** - Zoological gardens are for exhibiting animals, not plants.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  9. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Absolutely, Anan 7 had tried to fake Captain Kirk's voice to get everyone down to the disintegration chambers, but Scotty caught it. I think the short amount of time between Scotty calling back to say we're targeting you would have been enough for him to confirm it wasn't faked.

    Also, since Kirk knew if Scotty followed through he himself wouldn't survive it, I think it's the type of situation that calls for desperate measures. You don't usually request your own ship to kill you, I wouldn't think. But I washed out of the academy and I'm trying to get into the merchant service. :lol:

    I think you're right, but Riley was a bit off, with the bad water.

    So was it the writer writing the wrong word, the actor saying the line wrong, or was it the character of Riley that was wrong?

    **There's no covering up the zoo line. that's just wrong.
     
  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Door number one. High on funny water or not, a 23rd century person shouldn't have even noticed that a woman was taking over navigation.
     
  11. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I chalk the "universal suffrage" line up to Riley (a) being drunk on funny water and (b) trying to crack a lame joke.

    As for the infamous "zoological gardens" line, that was just a careless writer's mistake. In all the years they held Vina captive, the Talosians would certainly have learned enough English to know the difference between botanical gardens and a zoo!

    Then there's that "one to the fourth power" line from "Court Martial" . . . :mad:
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    OK, I can see that might have been the intent, though it is lame. If it really was intended as a play on words, an overt cue to that effect would have helped, like a wink or a nudge (which I don't recall being there).

    Yes, that made me sad.
     
  13. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Possibly more than that, if the dialogue in "Bread and Circuses" is to be believed:

    That reads more like (ultimately) turning the planet into a burning rock in space, rather than a Trek-ian version of precision bombing.
     
  14. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Space Seed

    STORY:
    The Enterprise comes across an old Earth vessel from the 1990s; the DY-500 class. On board they find a man and several others in suspended animation who calls himself Khan, a being who is later found out to be one of Earth's last tyrants. After Khan and his cohorts are revived, Khan plans to take over the Enterprise and continue his reign in the 23rd century.

    IDEOLOGY:
    'The bigger they are, the harder they fall.'

    Throughout the episode, Khan's immense ego has him believing he is the most intelligent, the most powerful. Yet, at one point just after Khan makes this egocentric belief known verbally to Kirk, the starship captain proceeds to beat Khan in an unarmed brawl.

    Lt. Marla McGivers also states that Khan may not like the 23rd century. It is a different period with different set of rules. And, Khan's ego has him believing that he can continue his reign by starting with the takeover of the Enterprise. And, as we see, he is mistaken.

    Kirk, having his heart in the right place, puts Khan an his people on a planet to 'rule' rather than subject them to court proceedings at a nearby starbase. However, to Khan, this may seem like an embarrassment since he ruled a great deal of Earth a few centuries ago. His reign during that time, only a memory in the 23rd century.


    PLOT HOLES/PLOT ISSUES:
    Zero!

    MISCELLANEOUS THOUGHTS:
    There are some new characters in this particular episode and some recurring characters. 'Mr. Spinelli' takes over for Sulu, while an unamed crewman – whom I've seen before in the previous episode, and in other capacities in other episodes – is at navigation. Eddie Paskey portrays another character named 'Thule' (pronounced 'Too-lee') and a familiar extra – Hawaiian actor who was seen as a bridge officer in 'Balance of Terror' and a security officer in the horrid 'The Alternative Factor' – portrays a character named 'Harrison.'

    Lt. Marla McGivers is also a new character that is integral to the plot. Drop dead beautiful, possibly aloof, and with a great deal of interest of male rulers of Earth's past – including Khan – she decides to help the revived tyrant takeover the ship. It's her state of lust (?) that possibly turns into some kind of love.

    Ricardo Montalban as Khan is, of course, legendary. Even by those not really familiar with Star Trek. Here, as stated earlier, he carries himself as if the world should worship him. For example, he expects servitude of Kirk, and expects Marla McGivers to 'entertain' him on their first meeting. When Kirk allows Khan the usage of the technical manuals, Khan doesn't say 'thank you,' but 'you're very cooperative.'

    Richardo Montalban is also Mexican-American (and may be considered 'white' by some) yet he's portraying someone who is said to be from India; a Sikh. And, there have been a many conversations of how lily-white Benedict Cumberbatch could portray someone with an Indian name in the last Star Trek film. However, there is one scene where Khan seemingly panics when McGivers states she knows who he truly is. I took this as open-ended. She could possibly know he is 'Khan Noonien Singh -which is found out by Kirk and crew when they do a lookup on the man via ship's computers – or that she knows he is someone who took the title for himself.

    We've had characters such as Isaac Hayes' 'The Duke' in John Carpenter's Escape from New York, and we have music artists who either call themselves 'Madonna' or 'Queen Latifah.' What if 'Khan' is someone who became enamored with the title Khan while in India and renamed himself Noonien Singh (and got a tan) before attempting to take over the world?

    Whether or not one considers the 1982 Wrath of Khan in their personal canon or the 2013 film, looking at this episode for this review, I did feel Khan was a scary individual. That the seed planet in space will grow a crazed man looking for revenge 15 years later....(in one take of the character).

    On the other hand, I like the way McCoy acts when he first meets Khan – who holds a stolen knife at the doctor's throat. He says, “Well, either strangle me or cut my throat. Make up your mind!” Even though he is sometimes grating, McCoy is the type who has shown to be pretty bold at times. (He did stand in front of a jousting knight in 'Shore Leave'!)

    Lastly, a little bit I didn't really notice before. During the final scene when Khan is brought into the room where Kirk is about to talk about charges against the man, we see not one but three security officers pointing phasers at Khan. It was pretty funny and, as aforementioned, interesting. (No chances were being taken!)

    SCORE:
    4.5 out of 5.

    What brought this episode down a few points were : A scene where we see stock footage of Sulu, and another when we clearly see the stunt doubles during the Kirk/Khan fight. However, the remastered version of this episode is pretty cool , especially during one scene as we actually see the DY-500 vessel let go by the Enterprise's tractor beams at one point as Khan takes over the Kirk's ship. (We didn't really see this in the original version, but just 'heard' about it through Kirk's log entry). Overall, a good episode with good characters and good character interactions.

    Next Up:
    Th Side of Paradise​
     
  15. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I always found McCoy to be an exceptionally brave man. Remember the way he 'volunteered' himself into being the test subject of the Vians, sparing Kirk and Spock the experience?

    I think it could be argued that McCoy was better at dealing with Khan than Kirk was, where Khan (as you said, Joel) had maneuvered himself into an authority position with Kirk. In McCoy's case, there was more of an acknowledgement - "I like a brave man." - of McCoy being sort of an equal, in a way.

    Even those who cannot stand The Final Frontier would have to admit they were riveted to the screen when McCoy faced down, and defied 'God' after he had struck down Kirk and Spock. :techman:
     
  16. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^

    Very true...lol
     
  17. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    The original episode did, in fact, have a miniature FX shot of the Botany Bay dropping away from the Enterprise.
     
  18. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I do vaguely remember that shot. (It's been a long while since I've seen the original).

    The remastered version just seems a bit more...dramatic. It's just a ship being disbanded, but it signifies Khan wanting to start over in the 23rd century (or continue, if you will). It's especially interesting since we get a glimpse of how bad Khan could be here, a taste, since he is hinted to be barbaric in the feature film sequel when he takes over the Reliant and Regula One because his attempt to rule was suppressed for so long.
     
  19. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I kind of wish that they could have worked it in somehow where Khan could have tried to suffocate Kirk, like he did in Space Seed (which was thwarted by nutcase McGuyvers). Sort of a 'picking up where he let off' kind of thing..
     
  20. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I believe this episode is where we first saw Dr. McCoy's pressure/vacuum chamber. I still think it's a very credible-looking piece of hardware, with its outer and inner doors and hefty locking mechanism.

    Link -- see pictures 19 thru 26