JAMES CAWLEY SPEAKS!

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by HerbFlynn, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What??? Those 4 films were not shot yet until after the guidelines, while James Cawley had shot films before the guidelines existed. I am aware the guidelines are not laws which is why I'm saying other productions should ignore them... like Vic continuously had done. Own it.

    I also understand a person can't claim the 501(c) but I can't see why other filmmakers can't apply for legal status through a US agency. Then have videos saying they're non-profit. Whatever it takes so they can have similar treatment like Vic I'm all for.
     
  2. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is Farragut also making minor course adjustments or they're done?
     
  3. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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    I have no idea why so many are butthurt about STC. Alec Peters did the harm to fan films, despite his and others' claims that he saved them.

    Fandom is Star Trek's worst enemy, and by the way, I'm happy to be on anyone's ignore list. :techman:
     
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  4. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Farragut was on their last episode anyway, and sold their interest in the studio they shared with STC to STC. They had planned to do a follow-up series but they decided that it wasn't worth it so long as the lawsuit was going on and the waters were murky. Last I heard they figured doing an original show was a safer bet, especially since they'd have to put up a lot of money to build new sets, et al. for what they'd planned.

    I don't know what you mean by "What???", but as I recall STC had raised money to make more shows before the guidelines came down, so they did what they promised their backers: they made more shows. The implication from von Critters was that shows started before the guidelines would not necessarily have to hew to them. So they likely went to CBS and said "can we finish what we started since we previously raised the money?"
     
  5. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Uh... butthurt??? No.

    I would like fanfilmmakers to get a pass like STC did because there's no point in guidelines when someone else can ignore them.
     
  6. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Cawley wasn't going to release any more of this stuff either way, guidelines or no guidelines. When STC stole his spotlight, he lost complete interest.

    The biggest losses were things like the Tommy Kraft Enterprise movie, Farragut Forward (more movie era stuff is always needed), the rebranding of Renegades (thus ruining the swan song of Nichols/Koenig), and the (pipe dream possibilities) that the Capt Pike or Star Trek Begins projects would ever progress.

    While I lament the fact that we lost 2 STC episodes, and that a few could have used more script polishing, its hard to complain when they are the only ones to have completed a full run of full length episodes, to the projects completion, with an ending. Honestly, my biggest pipe dream alternate universe wish is a version of Still Treads the Shadow with Shatner in it. hehe.


    Other outfits and filmmakers don't need a pass. STC didn't get a pass. They took a chance, and made something, and no one complained. No one is stopping anyone else from doing the same.
     
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    To this day I do not see what people see in Tommy Kraft's film, as I think it's a blurry eyesore, but vive la différence.

    This STC dead horse has been beaten to the point it's pulp. It's stinky and smelly and I'm all for burying it and moving on.
     
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  8. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    I can't agree. It seems to me that the Guidelines specifically represent the views of CBS regarding fan films. The Guidelines were clearly made to target an entire category of fan films, not just The-Fan-Film-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named. AP may have given them the idea, but CBS never had to listen to him. They know what they're doing, and it's entirely fair to hold them accountable for their choices. And the way I intend to hold them accountable is to not waste my creative efforts on a franchise that grants my fan contributions less respect than they would a cockroach scurrying across their kitchen floor.
     
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  9. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Why in heavens name should a business that sells to millions of consumers worldwide give tacit support or even tolerate a tiny number of hardcore fans who want to play with their toys? None one seems has a cogent or convincing answer to that, and this circular discussion had become beyond tedious. So, outta...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  10. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    Oh, so when fans fund and create large, ambitious fan productions, they're a threat to the integrity of the franchise, but for everything else they're inconsequential peons of little importance or value, right? There's a reason this argument seems circular: You're arguments are based on two different models of fandom: one where fans are weak when it comes to benefiting the franchise, and one where it's powerful regarding how they can hurt the franchise. You have to do this, because if the fans were weak in both cases, it wouldn't matter what they do and the Guidelines would be petty waste of time, and if they were strong in both cases, they'd be important enough to listen too.

    So make up your minds. Are they a powerful threat (in which case they'd make a powerful asset), or are they inconsequential (in which case it doesn't matter what they do and they can be safely ignored by CBS)? You can't have it both ways.
     
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  11. Danlav05

    Danlav05 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yep. Bare in mind a lot of STC folk worked on STNV beforehand!

    Weirdly I thought Horizon was great closure to Enterprise, but a sequel was announced and I was excited, then disappointed when it was canned

    This is the one I'm disappointed about most - not only would we have a high quality movie era film but we've al;ready had nearly half-a-dozen episodes to get to know these characters in the TOS era, like the real Trek we'd be taken them a decade on. Even just a single episode would have been cool.

    Not entirely lost - Requiem is a better production than their pilot, and it's very easy if you want to ignore the changes which I did. In fact, it's quite funny how some things have changed so little (Koenig being called Walter, the Scotty reference, Jada's backstory) The main changes really are Aron Eisenberg's head, the exterior starships and the removal of the combadges.

    The Nichols/Koenig thing is a single scene, shot before the changes.

    Well these just went quiet.

    And that's what I admire about STC - they set a goal and, even with a bit of compromise, saw it through to the end

    Did they confirm this script was written for Shatner to be in? It must have been, right?!
     
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  12. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    No. It's one contiguous model. Fan creations offer very little benefit to the IP holder (thus they are a poor investment), but they can potentially cause great harm (especially if they are bolstered by unfettered crowdfunding, star cameos, intentional brand confusion, etc).
     
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  13. USS Intrepid

    USS Intrepid Commodore Commodore

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    This again? The same handful of people post the same arguments over and over again, and get the same responses over and over again.

    How long until the mysterious new, recently registered poster none of us have ever seen before pops in with the drive by attacks? It's almost as if there's a pattern.
     
  14. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    Can you give examples of any serious IP holder investments in fandom? How about an example of a fan work causing serious and demonstrable damage to its respective IP? From where I'm sitting, it seems your conjecture that fans do more harm than good is entirely unsupported.

    @USS Intrepid, your entire argument is snide ad hominem without citation, and an argumentum ad populum fallacy to boot. As for the "majority" you refer to, it's usually a group of the same half dozen people who spam their target with the same arguments over and over again and ignore any gestures toward compromise or attempts to advance a real conversation. If their target stops posting, it's usually from mental exhaustion rather than lack of a counterargument.
     
  15. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    The ability to Google latin phrases doesn't intimidate the billygoats crossing the bridge. :D
     
  16. USS Intrepid

    USS Intrepid Commodore Commodore

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    Oh I think it's quite clear what I meant. Nothing snide about it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  17. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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  18. USS Intrepid

    USS Intrepid Commodore Commodore

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    Well that certainly beats your usual passive-aggressive verbal diarrhoea.

    To everyone else, sorry for the rare exception to my usual good manners. We now return you to your usual programming. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  19. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Then that is what I think other enthusiastic Trekfan filmmakers should do; take a chance, go to the IRS for a 501(c), and the very important thing is to talk to the CBS reps on what you're doing with their IP. Because apparently CBS can turn a blind eye to a repeat offender to the guidelines.

    As for Cawley, it sucks he gave up on it, and I didn't know he was looking for profit when he started his Trek fanfilms. I thought he raised the money for those projects through kickstarter and those films would be given to the folks who gave money in some way. The stuff he's done prior to the guidelines should get finished, and I guess Farragut Forward halted not because of the respect for the CBS Guidelines. A Guideline which is a big joke.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is largely pointless to argue. The rights of the property owner are not sufficent to interfer with people's ability to craft their "fan art." In this conversation, rights have no meaning as access to the property is largely expected as part of being a "fan" of the property. There is little in the way of compassionate understanding that if this property was actually someone we knew personally the discussion would take on a different tone I feel.

    To my reading, it starts at a level of passion to express towards a property and morphs, quite readily, in to expectation of access.

    Simply put, this discusssion will not be resolved.
     
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