JAMES CAWLEY SPEAKS!

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by HerbFlynn, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. HerbFlynn

    HerbFlynn Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    James Cawley posted the following on his Facebook page... (I noted items of note in bold)

    OK, I am going to answer this Fan film question one last time because I keep getting asked and there is so much misunderstanding and misinformation out there.

    1. Episodes that were already released online PRIOR to the guidelines are OK, and are not subject to the guidelines and won't be taken down or penalized


    2. There is no "GRANDFATHERING" for any fan film releases that were in production prior to the guidelines being released!
    NONE, ZERO, ZIP, NA DA!


    CBS has clearly said, that any and all releases after the guidelines that do not conform to said guidelines "Will be judged on a case by case basis". That means that any fan film makers who choose to ignore the guidelines are rolling the dice and could possibly face legal action.

    3. I am NOT INVOLVED with the fan film production of "STAR TREK:CONTINUES". I can not and will not answer any questions with regard to them, and why they are releasing 53 minute episodes.

    4. To the Best of my knowledge, all Trek fan films MUST abide by the guidelines, and no one group has any special permissions to just ignore them.

    That is all I know folks. I am not going to engage in debate, nor do I want any badmouthing towards CBS/PARAMOUNT. If you do this on my page, you are gone. My page is my house and no one is going to play on my lawn and make a mess.

    Let me be totally clear, CBS/PARAMOUNT had no issues with fan films for more than a decade! They could have stopped me when I started in 2003, but instead agreed to let us, fans have fun and play as long as we understood it was for play and stayed in the playground, which we happily did. We had a few unwritten ground rules which we shared with other groups and all was just fine!

    We all know what transpired to change the rules on the playground and I won't go into any of that.

    I fully respect CBS/PARAMOUNT. They own STAR TREK and only they can decide who gets to use their property.

    If I owned it, I would feel the same way.
     
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  2. HerbFlynn

    HerbFlynn Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Clearly he had more inside information due to his relationship with CBS because of the tour - and this is clearly directed at STAR TREK CONTINUES.
     
  3. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Didn't John Van Citters specifically say that ones in production at the time the guidelines were announced were free to continue? Perhaps something has changed since then.
     
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  4. Treadwell

    Treadwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, he did.
     
  5. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just more excuses for him as to why he won't release his final episodes - even though he was in the process of shutting down before the guidelines issues hit. He would rather have his lucrative little set tour then finish what he (used kickstarter) to pay for. NV went to crap after their association with AP and the move / "upgrades." What a waste.

    We have the Van Critters interview, the definition of the word "guidelines," the STC relationship with CBS, and the obvious fact that STC is not shying away from discussing nor acting on their plans to finish producing and releasing their announced episodes.

    IMO, Cawley has always been jealous of STC's fast ascent, and the insecurity made him not want to play anymore.
     
  6. Philip Guyott

    Philip Guyott Captain Captain

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    He said the guidelines are not retroactive. However as far as I'm aware he was only talking about fan productions already released. In other words, they will not take action against fan films released prior to the guidelines. I do not remember him saying that this included films already in production, although that is how many people chose to interpret it. Indeed, many fan films that were already in production and post-production at the time stopped. I certainly hope that CBS lets STC finish up their series.

    However, did James not finish doing fan films long before the guidelines came out. I am sure I remember him saying he was finishing because it was no longer fun. It was he who decided not to finish the episodes already in production. If I recall correctly (I might be wrong), it was before the Axanar lawsuit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
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  7. 9gs

    9gs Commander Red Shirt

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    I respect a lot what James has done. However, he went all in with AP and Axanar and got burned big time. Good luck with the Star Trek TOS set tour. They have done an amazing job. He messed up by casting Brian Gross as Kirk IMHO.
     
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  8. Danlav05

    Danlav05 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can't say I warmed to Brian as Kirk. NV was good up until about 2007 then as a group they began to deteriorate and become inconsistant. I followed their every move! The best episode is almost certainly still World Enough and Time.

    The original mission statement was to complete the 5 year misson, as part of that a load of elements from the abandoned PHASE II idea were brought in which I absolutely loved - costumes, ship changes, Xon, unused scripts. To me the Phase II book by the Reeves-Stevenses is almost redundant as I feel I've seen the show now, albiet in a slightly different format. That's a positive, the open wound of the show not being made has closed up

    But then things changed. There were obvious issues behind the scenes regarding Kitumba and Origins (the latter I would have loved to have seen but not holding my breath!). They revealed a now-unused 70s style logo whhich I liked, but never built the Engineering set from Phase II, instead the TOS one for the tour. Going Boldly signalled a second relaunce of the show that never actually happened! As a reaction to STC they made Mind-Sifter more like TOS and set during Season 3.

    By then apparantly Cawley was ready to shut down, we weren't going to get the episode where they go into spacedock for repairs and see the new uniforms. Plus about three or four episodes had been SHOT AND INCOMPLETED (Origins, Torment of Destiny, Bread and Savagery plus a vignette called Chain of Command) - this was a group project but Cawley had a say on what went out, it was HIS. This is why releases were delayed. Mind-Sifter was rewritten and reshot from scratch. It was sad to realise the project had fallen off the rails and been abandoned.

    I think the difference is New Voyages was a modern-era show set during the 5YM as opposed to STC's very accurate return to the 60s. There were definite references to later series and movies - Carol Marcus, 24th Century Kirk, Spock and Scotty, Ferengi, Borg, the Excelsior, Dr Yar, need I go on? Dare I say Cawley felt that STC stole his spotlight?
     
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  9. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can understand not wanting to complete the episodes if they feel it would damage their relationship with CBS, but after the fundraising campaigns I think they owe the donors something.
     
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  10. alensatemybuick1

    alensatemybuick1 Commander Red Shirt

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    I used to check out STNV/Phase II and STC on IMDB, and would occasionally peruse the message boards associated with those productions. I was amazed at the vitriol on those boards, how so-and-so was a "thief and a liar", or how one production or another "stinks and I don't like it", etc.etc. IMDB did away with their message boards, and threads like those are one reason I won't miss them. Hope this thread does not go the same way.

    Looking forward myself to touring Cawley's sets this spring. Even if STC is the superior fan series.:)
     
  11. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    After STC, their best bet would have been to *fully embrace* the Phase II aspect, and instead they *regressed* .... switching the name back to New Voyages, for instance. I would have loved to see the 70s style logo and more 70s style stuff integrated as they moved fully into Phase II. By that point, they should have embraced the alternate universe of "no TMP, Phase II instead" and started introducing 70s style reimagingings of everything and become their own creature. There was already too much of a disconnect for me with things like an aged Peter Kirk; by the time they did the Carol Marcus episode, the timeline made no sense and was just nonsense. I was excited by things like the new engines, but that was barely realized.

    I've had some private conversations with someone involved in the Mindsifter debacle, and the whole thing really is sad; so much work and so many performances completed on a Cawley Kirk version of the episode, just thrown out *completely*.... I never bought Gross as Kirk.

    Getting involved with AP and letting him talk them into using Kickstarter and upgrading into much more costly circumstances and have input into any decision making was a huge mistake. Letting jealousy between Vic get to him during or after Origins was another. The only people that really get hurt are all the volunteers, actors, supporters and donators that put time, money, energy and love into the production, only to have one person's attitude... well, i'm not sure what to say that isn't rather rude, so never mind. Just really can't shake the feeling that this isn't right at all.
     
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  12. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    Agree, it would have been a successful run if Cawley's NV had delivered the Phase II Engineering set et.al. and had a last episode arriving in drydock for TMP refit to begin. These things would have impressively placed NV apart from STC.
    https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/main-engineering-set-construction-nv-p2.273073/#post-11146501
    https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/main-engineering-set-construction-nv-p2.273073/
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  13. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But by then he was already competing in his head with STC over who had the most accurate TOS sets down to the centimeter - no way was he going to let THEM build a full engine room first.....
     
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  14. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Last comment - yes, fan films will be judged on a case to case basis.... just as it always has been. NV never attracted any negative attention, and got him and his props invited over for various productions and the 09 cameo. Why does he feel this could possibly be any different now? In the case by case scenario, he already has a proven track record and relationship. He just doesn't want to. This decision of his predates the guidelines. Its disingenuous.
     
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  15. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He stated ones in POST PRODUCTION and about to be released (IE if you were a couple of days away when the Guidlines hit from publicly posting it to youtube) would not have a problem. [And 'Post production' is the point where everything is filmed, and you're editing all elements - sound, VFX, music, dialog into the final release version].

    If you were still writing a script, building sets, etc. (IE in actual Production) or were in pre-production and months from release - you were SOL.
     
  16. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    How so? I person can have multiple reasons for avoiding action, both personal and public.
    It's not like Mr. Cawley has to have only ONE SINGLE REASON for all his actions.
     
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  17. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It feels as if
    It feels as if he is hiding behind the guidelines as a reason in order to deflect public criticism, rather then owning the fact that he just made a personal decision and doesn't want to do it anymore. He has never been one to take criticism very well.
     
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  18. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I tend to agree, in retrospect, that it might have been a better move for P2 to become more its own thing than try to compete on STC's terms. But it's not easy to gauge things like this while they're happening.
     
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  19. Danlav05

    Danlav05 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, Phase II is unfinished which is why I'm thanking that Star Trek Continues is going the way it is, yes the format will be different but we are getting that finale episode surging into TMP.

    I know they are two different productions and neither Vic or James would probably agree to this but for my personal collection I've mixed episodes of PII and STC together to make a season, based on workings with @Philip Guyott :

    1. PII No-Win Scenario
    2. NV In Harm's Way
    3. NV Center Seat

    4. STC You've Got The Conn
    5. STC Happy Birthday, Scotty!

    6. NV To Serve All My Days (pretend Chekov's an ensign)
    7. STC Pilgrim of Eternity
    8. STC Lolani
    9. STC The White Iris
    10. STC Divided We Stand
    11. STC Come Not Between The Dragons

    12. NV World Enough and Time
    13. STC Embracing the Winds (Chekov's promotion)
    14. NV Come What May (Chekov in red as security chief)
    15. PII Blood and Fire [movie edit]
    16. PII Enemy: Starfleet!
    17. PII The Child
    18. PII Kitumba
    19. PII Going Boldly
    20. NV The Holiest Thing

    21. STC Still Treads The Shadow
    22. [GAP] STC Episode 9
    23. [GAP] STC Series Finale (Part 1)
    24. [GAP] STC Series Finale (Part 2)


    Some are missed out of this list because they take place before Turnabout Intruder. Or recreate the ending with a bonus scene.

    Originally my working was STC was Season 4 and P2 was Season 5 but I decided to mix, yes there are indeed some continuity discrepencies but you have to overlook. P2 recast multiple times so that's now a non-issue to me, as well as obviously the slight refitting Going Boldly.

    And I noticed that list is 12 stories apiece, so we're even!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  20. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    How ya figure? Again, the guidelines are one public reason, his lack of interest (facilitated by multiple factors) is another. Why does he have to list EVERY reason for his actions EVERY time someone asks?
     
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