It's official: Thank God for Remastered!

[plynch]

The original stock shots look the way they do because the original film elements were damaged from use and re-use. They're not going to look any better, which is the reason for the new effects in the first place.

If we can put a man on the moon, we can digitally clean up some film from 1966.

One thing I COULD go for -- and this could get me kicked out of the reactionary club -- using some original "real" footage: standardize the Enterprise's phaser/torpedo effects.

 

[Harvey]

If we can put a man on the moon, we can digitally clean up some film from 1966.

The technology of film restoration only goes so far, I'm afraid.

 

[Warped9]

Short of doing enhancement like it should have been done--which I acknowledge would have been challenging, but doable--I'd rather they had used cgi to recreate the original shots as if they were pristine albeit with an occasional addition here and there. By occasional I mean something like finishing off the unfinished side of the filming miniature. Or straightening/clearing up a visual display like the medical records shown in WNMHGB. In that way you would have had good looking f/x that fit seamlessly alongside the remaining live-action footage. Things like adding eyelids to the Gorn. a visible beam to Scotty's phaser ("The Naked Time"), sound f/x to the phaser bursts ("Balance Of Terror") or digitalizing the ship's helm chronometer ("The Corbomite Maneuver") would be a no-no.

The best analogy I can use as an example are colorization of The Mark Of Zorro (1940) and the early seasons of Bewitched which were originally filmed in B&W. In both cases they did an admirable job of colorization, but what really made it effective is that they still look vintage. They look like they were filmed in colour of the 1940s and '60s. They don't look like they were filmed with today's sense of colour. The colour looks vintage and authentic. I admit I'm challenged to express what I easily see when I look at the works.

 

[NickintheATL]

Shall I be the first to disagree?

You are not the first:
these threads

<snip!>

I wasn't talking about overall, just in this thread.

 

[Grant]

It seems the folks who are asking the the original FX would be cleaned up or the 'original' uses of the particular stock shot be inserted into all the subsequent shots don't seem to get is------

That even the first uses of most of the shots are not HD worthy.

The live action shots (with the exceptions of live action FX shots---phasers, beam-ins etc.) were cinema quality.

When they color-corrected and cleaned up---they were pretty much perfect and stunning.

The 'space shots' were never at that quality because they used overlays of film to make the shots.

For example, a shot of the Enterprise and a Klingon ship in orbit of a planet would have as many as 4 overlays of film-----
the shot of the Ent
the shot of the Klingon ship
the planet
the background stars


4 layers of film will never look any good in an HD presentation of the show---especially because dust and dirt are extremly difficult to remove in multiple process shots like that.


For HD, the show needed new FX.
They weren't going to be perfect because of time and budget, but they did good work with the restrcitions---just like the original FX folks did.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The decision to replace the original effects was a sound one, as these screencaps demonstrate, based upon the limitations of the original effects.

There is no sense in which this is aesthetically preferable to this except as a fetish.

That doesn't mean that the current version of Trek Remastered "gets it right" anywhere near 100% of the time. Much of what they have done is quite good, some is excellent, some should and doubtless will be revisited and revised yet again.

It's also true that the CG work on Trek Remastered is not near the current state-of-the-art for this sort of thing, mainly due to time and budget constraints. That's curiously appropriate as the original effects work on TOS didn't represent the best that could be achieved in those days, either - mainly due to time and budget constraints.

 

[Gojira]

The decision to replace the original effects was a sound one, as these screencaps demonstrate, based upon the limitations of the original effects.

There is no sense in which this is aesthetically preferable to this except as a fetish.

That doesn't mean that the current version of Trek Remastered "gets it right" anywhere near 100% of the time. Much of what they have done is quite good, some is excellent, some should and doubtless will be revisited and revised yet again.

It's also true that the CG work on Trek Remastered is not near the current state-of-the-art for this sort of thing, mainly due to time and budget constraints. That's curiously appropriate as the original effects work on TOS didn't represent the best that could be achieved in those days, either - mainly due to time and budget constraints.

I agree with what you have said and I love the remastered version. But wasn't their justification for not going completely state-of-the-art with the updated FX due to them still wanting these FX to remain congruent with the 1960s look of the rest of the show? Otherwise it would be too much a contrast between new FX and the old show. I think they wanted to improve the FX but keep them within the spirit of the show.

 

[Warped9]

^^ But they weren't congruent with the rest of the show because the '60s could never have produced anything like the F/X in TOS-R.

 

[Gojira]

^^ But they weren't congruent with the rest of the show because the '60s could never have produced anything like the F/X in TOS-R.

While I agree they couldn't have done F/X like that in the 60s I do still feel the remastered F/X do fit well with the spirit of the look of the show.

 

[22 Stars]

Let the nay-sayers say nay, and the those that enjoy it, enjoy it... simple. There is no right and wrong, all a matter of taste. I just wish Mike, Dave, Denise etc. had the chance to go back and re-do the first batch, those shows deserve the same treatment that the other, generally well received eps got.

Really, go compare the Enterprise in a later remastered episode to the Balance of Terror Enterprise, or the one in the opening credits. This false-start tainted too many people's opinion (the rational ones anyway).

 

[Warped9]

^^ But they weren't congruent with the rest of the show because the '60s could never have produced anything like the F/X in TOS-R.

While I agree they couldn't have done F/X like that in the 60s I do still feel the remastered F/X do fit well with the spirit of the look of the show.

This is the sort of thing I simply cannot understand. The difference in aesthetic between TOS' live-action footage and TOS-R's f/x is like stark night and day. It looks like two distinctly disparate productions from two totally different times spliced together, which is exactly the case.

I just cannot reconcile the two.

 

[Ronald Held]

I think we will not agree on this, but everyone should voice their views. Maybe, it will be noted when They try something like the Remastering on another series, or movies.

 

[Forbin]

I'm waiting for The Monkees remastered, with modern popular music dubbed in to replace that cheezy 60s stuff. And the MonkeeMobile should totally be digitally replaced with a stretched Hummer.

 

[RAMA]

Trekcore has some screencaps up from the BD release of TOS-R and they have examples of BOTH the original and Remastered FX shots.

The original FX look like utter CRAP compared to the stage footage. The decision to "reshoot" the FX was the right one.

I think this is just stating the obvious...

I JUST showed remastered WNMHGB to a friend who had never seen it and he couldn't believe the difference...with the bluray on sale I think a lot of people are going to discover it. :-)

RAMA

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm waiting for The Monkees remastered, with modern popular music dubbed in to replace that cheezy 60s stuff. And the MonkeeMobile should totally be digitally replaced with a stretched Hummer.

I'm not, and if you're suggesting any equivalence between TOS and The Monkees as a premise for critiquing Trek Remastered you're diminishing TOS rather than the revisions.

 

[plynch]

I agree with the live and let live sentiment, but the title of this post is absolute and decree-like, as are some of the posts, such as this:
"There is no sense in which this is aesthetically preferable to this except as a fetish."

There ARE several senses in which 1 might be preferable to 2 aesthetically, because one's aesthetic appreciation can include a lot, not just how clean and colorful something looks. Such ways have been elaborated above, so no need to waste space here, but I couldn't let a god-like decree go unchallenged. Be well.

 

[Gojira]

^^ But they weren't congruent with the rest of the show because the '60s could never have produced anything like the F/X in TOS-R.

While I agree they couldn't have done F/X like that in the 60s I do still feel the remastered F/X do fit well with the spirit of the look of the show.

This is the sort of thing I simply cannot understand. The difference in aesthetic between TOS' live-action footage and TOS-R's f/x is like stark night and day. It looks like two distinctly disparate productions from two totally different times spliced together, which is exactly the case.

I just cannot reconcile the two.

I understand that some people will not be able to reconcile the two but some can and there is nothing wrong with it.

Truthfully this entire issue is about subjective taste and nobody's taste is either right or wrong.

 

[Hofner]

I'm waiting for The Monkees remastered, with modern popular music dubbed in to replace that cheezy 60s stuff. And the MonkeeMobile should totally be digitally replaced with a stretched Hummer.

Hey, hey what's this about monkeying around with The Monkees? Some people just wanna put the show down. Well, I'm not a believer; when it comes to messing with this classic masterpiece, I'm outta here on the last train to Clarksville.

Robert

 

[Forbin]

I'm waiting for The Monkees remastered, with modern popular music dubbed in to replace that cheezy 60s stuff. And the MonkeeMobile should totally be digitally replaced with a stretched Hummer.

I'm not, and if you're suggesting any equivalence between TOS and The Monkees as a premise for critiquing Trek Remastered you're diminishing TOS rather than the revisions.

Nah, just bein' goofy.

 

[Forbin]

I'm waiting for The Monkees remastered, with modern popular music dubbed in to replace that cheezy 60s stuff. And the MonkeeMobile should totally be digitally replaced with a stretched Hummer.

Hey, hey what's this about monkeying around with The Monkees? Some people just wanna put the show down. Well, I'm not a believer; when it comes to messing with this classic masterpiece, I'm outta here on the last train to Clarksville.

Robert

And I just happen to have my Monkees playlist running right now!