It's official: Thank God for Remastered!

[22 Stars]

I too would urge those who don't 'love' TOSR to take a look at the second batch of episodes done. The second Enterprise mesh was far superior, and the techs learned to light it well and construct better shots. And they DID finally get the bussard collectors to look like the shooting model, they only look 'cartoonish' in the first batch of episodes. I know, because I asked Mike Okuda, and they intended to go back and re-remaster the first batch of episodes but that never happened.

As shame, because most people didn't watch all of them, and the first batch left a less-than-ideal taste in most people's mouths. It also doesn't help that the credit sequence was rendered with the inferior mesh and never re-done, so the that looks 'iffy' in every episode.

 

[blssdwlf]

^He's referring to the fact that the original shot had the Romulan vessels distributed somewhat three-dimensionally, whereas the remastered shot has all the vessels on the same plane, as if they were only able to navigate in two-dimensions, like sea-going ships.

It's a moot point, I think, for two reasons. In both shots the ships are unnecessarily close together (a common problem in Trek), and whether 3D or 2D, the Romulans have Enterprise surrounded. If she were to move up or down, the Romulans would, too. So, stalemate.

True, a stalemate. But the original version seemed to be more dramatic in composition for 4:3. Nothing like a battlecruiser approaching from above the Enterprise and it's cohorts flanking her at different levels to establish visual superiority. The TOS-R version, although technically looking good, looks like was formulated for an eventual widescreen, crop-the-top-and-bottom-off look, IMHO.

The one thing though about TOS-R vs TOS is that the enemy ships tend to be portrayed even closer than original version - a very TNG sensibility being applied to TOS

 

[Lieut. Arex]

I prefer TOS-R not only for their (IMO) tastefully done special effects, but also for being able to add new effects that the old show simply did not have the budget to show us. How many times did we see an alien ship represented by an amorphous glowing blob? At least with TOS-R we got to see things that Gene and the original crew would've wanted us to see but couldn't deliver.

And speaking of the new special effects, nothing from the original unaltered footage beats the way this new shot was done. And I am sorry to everyone who likes the original better, but I say that you guys are deliberately choosing to enjoy something old and crappy out of sheer stubborn bloody-mindedness. I say you are appealing to tradition and to authority:

"The old unaltered TOS came first. Gene Roddenberry, Matt Jeffries, et al directly made it. Therefore it is objectively better than everything that came after."

Yeah, because the low-poly D7 model with the crap texturing job (look at the way the bird wraps around the back and front of the engineering hull) looks so much better than the physical model.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

Shall I be the first to disagree?

I disagree.

Seconded![

Thirdedededed (at least).

Love that avatar dude! Where'dja get it?

 

[Gojira]

As a long time TOS fan since the early 70s the updated FX for the remastered edition was a long time dream come true for me. I love the TOS-R and prefer it to the originals which I can't even watch anymore. I only own the TOS-R on DVD.

 

[plynch]

A. I'll trust ya that the later eps look less cartoonish; with the CGI expertise and technology available, why did they do the first batch poorly?

B. People get really worked up about this. What's really going on?

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I like most of the TOS-R fx just fine as fx shots in themselves and I would be pleased as punch if they were used in a TOS era spin-off show. As additions to TOS itself, they just sit wrong with me, much as colorization did.

 

[scotpens]

Love that avatar dude! Where'dja get it?

Are you referring to A beaker full of death's avatar or mine?

(These nested quotes-within-quotes-within-quotes can get confusing. )

. . . People get really worked up about this. What's really going on?

Do I need to draw you a diagram?

It's freakin' STAR TREK!!

 

[Doug Otte]

I don't know if there's a statistical way to determine this, but I'm assuming that our preferences can be based upon age and number of years we've watched the episodes. (I will say that, despite my complaints about the new effects here and in many other threads, I've enjoyed seeing them just as a novelty. I think the CG team did a pretty good job both technically and creatively with the time and budget they were allowed. The composition of some of the shots looks superior to the originals.)

Having said that, I'm 51 and have watched Star Trek for over 35 years. I started watching on a B&W TV after school in around 1973. Since then, I've seen my favorite episodes countless times, in gradually increasing quality. Maybe that's why I prefer the original effects. I can say that I prefer practical effects more than CGI in nearly every movie or show I've seen, not just Trek. Is it possible that those of us who prefer the new effects are younger and have accepted CGI more than those of us who grew up with practical effects?

Doug

 

[Brutal Strudel]

40 here and I prefer practical effects though I appreciate cgi.

 

[SeerSGB]

I've seen TOS-R in standard and HD, and frankly I usually end up watching my original unaltered version DVDs. The remastered effects look OK, but they seem to scream "Special effect, look at me", they feel as if they are intruding on the story and not enhancing it.

 

[plynch]

I'm 43 and go back as far first syndication run, and maybe NBC as a baby -- parents are unsure. But I'm ok with CGI in some things. Avatar was amazing, effects-wise. In later Trek movies (eps too, right?) they work fine. They are just incongruous/jarring in a 60s live show. Like somebody above said, they scream, "Hey notice me." Good comment, that.

 

[BK613]

^He's referring to the fact that the original shot had the Romulan vessels distributed somewhat three-dimensionally, whereas the remastered shot has all the vessels on the same plane, as if they were only able to navigate in two-dimensions, like sea-going ships.

Exactly so! Moreover, none of the individual ship's planes are even parallel; no space lake whatsoever.

It's a moot point, I think, for two reasons. In both shots the ships are unnecessarily close together (a common problem in Trek), and whether 3D or 2D, the Romulans have Enterprise surrounded. If she were to move up or down, the Romulans would, too. So, stalemate.

This is really irrelevant since my post wasn't about Romulan tactics but shot composition. The original shot does a better job of conveying the story point that the Ent is "completely surrounded" and that escape would impossible in any direction. And while it might not of been intended, the Romulan ships look like they are pointed where the Ent will be be not where she is now, conveying, at least to me, a readiness to act at the slightest hint of movement.

 

[3D Master]

This:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02hd/theenterpriseincidenthd0010.jpg

vs this:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02hd/theenterpriseincidenthd0011d.jpg

The difference is obvious. The first is a washed out, oddly exposed grainy PoS image with lots of artifacts from the upconversion and the later is smooth and polished and fits in much better with the image quality of the soundstage footage.

Game, set, and match...TOS-R is the superior version!

Apparently you don't understand that the original SFX shots, have not been cleaned up and digitally fully restored as the soundstage shots were. Had they done so, the SFX shots would look much better.

On top of that, it isn't even that bad.

 

[Warped9]

TOS-R was a half-assed effort because to do it right would have required real, focused vision and sufficient time and effort. It didn't get any of those things.

Things were changed simply because they could without genuine respect for the original artistic integrity. Many of the new shots look fine in of themselves, but they are jarring next to the remaining live-action footage. The aesthetic is all wrong.

What was really needed was to produce state-of-the-art F/X that looked like 1960s state-of-the-art F/X rather than mediocre 2000s cgi F/X. Refer to cleaned up versions of Forbidden Planet, Fantastic Voyage, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Planet Of The Apes to see what top=of=the=line '60s F/X could be. Now that would have fit seamlessly alongside the remaining live-action footage. I've even done many photomanipped images with Photoshop to depict what it could have looked like.

That said some of the new mattes are nice updates of the original images.

 

[Nero's Shadow]

When i find out that they were upgrading the FX shots on TOS i was quite happy and hooked on the idea but i felt that the only way i,d like them was seen them with my own eyes.?

So i bought them all on Blu Ray season,s one two and now just watching three. And after watching season,s 1 and 2 i have to say i like wot they have done with the FX shots the Enterprise looks awesome and the planets look so real .

In a way i feel like TOS remasterd is a opportunity to watch and it,s like marmite you like it with the new FX shots or you dont .

Recently i took my Blu Ray TOS around to my friends house so i could do a little research i showed him some episodes with the new FX shots and with the old original shots as u can toggle between both and his reaction was quite positive he liked the FX shots and as we watched more episodes he was hooked on TOS

 

[Warped9]

This is yet again one of those things the two camps will never agree on.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

That said some of the new mattes are nice updates of the original images.

From what I've seen the new mattes are great in places, but the guys who've been working on the fan series Phase II have completely trumped them with CGI work like this.

I'm sure a big studio can afford plenty of time on a computer to render a little scene, but they didn't seem to stretch to doing anything with those scenes.

Nothing in the new CGI work has bettered the original series in terms of entertainment.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Meh.

 

[Grant]

This:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02hd/theenterpriseincidenthd0010.jpg

vs this:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02hd/theenterpriseincidenthd0011d.jpg

The difference is obvious. The first is a washed out, oddly exposed grainy PoS image with lots of artifacts from the upconversion and the later is smooth and polished and fits in much better with the image quality of the soundstage footage.

Game, set, and match...TOS-R is the superior version!

Apparently you don't understand that the original SFX shots, have not been cleaned up and digitally fully restored as the soundstage shots were. Had they done so, the SFX shots would look much better.

On top of that, it isn't even that bad.

Dead wrong.

The sections of the episodes containing the original FX WERE cleaned up.

It was AFTER they cleaned up both the original FX and the live action segments and viewed the episodes that they realized that the original FX shot (for various reasons) were so inferior to the live action cleaned sections that they went down the road of doing new CGI FX.

Did they spend loads of money trying to fix or enhance the old, washed out, reused multiple times FX shots?

No. That would have been tons of time and money for only a marginal gain.

But they DID do a clean up of the footage as far as dust, dirt, tears, etc.

The problem was that they had reused the original 15 or so shots of the Ent so many times they were just destroyed by the late first season.

So they didn't spend a sh*t-load of money enhancing the g-damn 15 redundant shots dozens of times----they created hundreds of new shots specific to the episodes and not generic left turn, right turn, flying left, flying right, etc., shots.

And the TOS-R episodes that the Ent model was poorly rendered were only the first 7 episodes that opened the sydication run. The other 73 or so episodes are much better.