It's official: Thank God for Remastered!
- Thread starter darkwing_duck1
- Start date
My revised take on TOS-R, after seeing most of the episodes in standard def. and reading everyone's opinions in that "it's a waste" thread I did.
They should have either:
Exactly copied the TOS scenes with CG
or
Done a Star Wars and CG the F out of it, enhancing/changing everything.
As it was we got a hit-and-miss mish mash of some brilliant new stuff (the wrecked Constellation, Shi'Kahr) and some horrible stuff ("Ballence of Terror").
IMO the Enterprise CG should have been given a lived-in USS Kelvin look, with visible hull plates, torpedo launchers and phaser turrets, especially should option B have been chosen.
They should have either:
Exactly copied the TOS scenes with CG
or
Done a Star Wars and CG the F out of it, enhancing/changing everything.
As it was we got a hit-and-miss mish mash of some brilliant new stuff (the wrecked Constellation, Shi'Kahr) and some horrible stuff ("Ballence of Terror").
IMO the Enterprise CG should have been given a lived-in USS Kelvin look, with visible hull plates, torpedo launchers and phaser turrets, especially should option B have been chosen.
Mr. Duck,
Greetings.
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And if this has all been hashed out before on the bbs, I apologize, but I just noticed the Confederate flag avatar today. Be well!
But it doesn't look like a physical model, it looks like a flat cartoon.
Metropolis is also often impressive.
Metropolis is pretty impressive, as is Forbidden Planet, but I don't think either holds up to the motion control model-work pioneered for Star Wars.
The painstakingly done roto-scoping in 2001: A Space Odyssey, on the other hand, looks (for the most part) fantastic. But that's what you get when you spend all the money and time that Kubrick did on post-production.
As to the remastered effects on Star Trek, I find I prefer them over the original effects, which look washed out and grainy do the the many generations of re-use the relatively small library of stock shots went through, especially in HD. At times the CGI is too cartoony, but for the most part I have no complaints. Frankly, the original effects are more jarring than the new ones.
I am glad that the Blu-Rays provide both versions, however. If only George Lucas would take note.
The painstakingly done roto-scoping in 2001: A Space Odyssey, on the other hand, looks (for the most part) fantastic. But that's what you get when you spend all the money and time that Kubrick did on post-production.
As to the remastered effects on Star Trek, I find I prefer them over the original effects, which look washed out and grainy do the the many generations of re-use the relatively small library of stock shots went through, especially in HD. At times the CGI is too cartoony, but for the most part I have no complaints. Frankly, the original effects are more jarring than the new ones.
I am glad that the Blu-Rays provide both versions, however. If only George Lucas would take note.
They meant well, but TOS-R even if good in spots, just did not mesh well with the other footage.
And once again TOS effects were state of the art then.
And once again TOS effects were state of the art then.
Thirdedededed (at least).
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Whichever way you put it, the BD versions are horribly exposed, have all sorts of artifacts and strange effects on textures and lighting, etc. The UN-High Def versions of the original FX are better looking than that.
They absolutely match in terms of tone, color balance, and overall image quality.
No they were not. Desilu/Paramount had neither the time nor the money for true SotA FX work. They did a pretty good job with what they had, and it looked good for its day, but it doesn't hold up to HD viewing.
I prefer TOS-R not only for their (IMO) tastefully done special effects, but also for being able to add new effects that the old show simply did not have the budget to show us. How many times did we see an alien ship represented by an amorphous glowing blob? At least with TOS-R we got to see things that Gene and the original crew would've wanted us to see but couldn't deliver.
And speaking of the new special effects, nothing from the original unaltered footage beats the way this new shot was done. And I am sorry to everyone who likes the original better, but I say that you guys are deliberately choosing to enjoy something old and crappy out of sheer stubborn bloody-mindedness. I say you are appealing to tradition and to authority:
"The old unaltered TOS came first. Gene Roddenberry, Matt Jeffries, et al directly made it. Therefore it is objectively better than everything that came after."
And speaking of the new special effects, nothing from the original unaltered footage beats the way this new shot was done. And I am sorry to everyone who likes the original better, but I say that you guys are deliberately choosing to enjoy something old and crappy out of sheer stubborn bloody-mindedness. I say you are appealing to tradition and to authority:
"The old unaltered TOS came first. Gene Roddenberry, Matt Jeffries, et al directly made it. Therefore it is objectively better than everything that came after."
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It really does depend on what shot your looking at. Some of the remastered shots look fantastic while others look like graphics from a poor video game...the new fx of the shuttlecraft immediately come to mind. Some of the shots of the enterprise are poor and would actually benefit from a poorer resolution...the full blown HD resolution on these shots aren't very complimentary. Yet some look absolutely spectacular and I have no problem believing the ship is real object. It's thAt type of inconsistency I have a problem with, not so much the idea of it.
If you like TAS then you'll LOVE TOS-R.
Hey look Ma, space lake.
Now, look Ma, no space lake!
Seriously, all of the TOS-R stuff was technically better in terms of image quality but let's face it, there was some extreme suckage on the cinematography end of things.
Now, look Ma, no space lake!
Seriously, all of the TOS-R stuff was technically better in terms of image quality but let's face it, there was some extreme suckage on the cinematography end of things.
I'll give you that many of the TOS-R STILLS look good, the finished project looks more like a cutscene from a space opera computer game than it does anything cinematic. Like jerky ships in Wing Commander or Tie-Fighter. The ship seems to just change its orientation while the background changes behind it. That's what I mean by no mass. The ship is spasticly shaking, turning, banking, and the background just changes accordingly. It never looks like it's a mass moving through space. It's too jerky.
...did they not also offer the originals in the BR release?
...did they not also offer the originals in the BR release?
There are some good shots in TOS-R, then there are some horrible shots that look like a video game screenshot that a 13 year old has added photoshop effects to: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/_...lpha/en/images/3/34/Beta_XII-A_remastered.jpg
We can all see the difference in composition between the original and remastered shots in “The Enterprise Incident” -- in fact, I kind of like that they added a Romulan Bird of Prey to the scene. But what do you mean by “space lake”? Are you referring to the apparent distance between vessels?
^He's referring to the fact that the original shot had the Romulan vessels distributed somewhat three-dimensionally, whereas the remastered shot has all the vessels on the same plane, as if they were only able to navigate in two-dimensions, like sea-going ships.
It's a moot point, I think, for two reasons. In both shots the ships are unnecessarily close together (a common problem in Trek), and whether 3D or 2D, the Romulans have Enterprise surrounded. If she were to move up or down, the Romulans would, too. So, stalemate.
It's a moot point, I think, for two reasons. In both shots the ships are unnecessarily close together (a common problem in Trek), and whether 3D or 2D, the Romulans have Enterprise surrounded. If she were to move up or down, the Romulans would, too. So, stalemate.
I don't think people are listening to those who prefer the unchanged versions.
a. The CGI in TOS-R ARE pristine, yes, but very cartoonish, even compared to other CGI of our era. That shot you linked to looks like something out of an animated series. I would LOVE!!! a well-done animated Trek by the way. But the shots look out of place inserted into a 60s live action TV show. It is jarring especially to those who've seen the original eps a zillion times. Being jarred or distracted from the flow of the show is not, imho, good. If YOU like the effects, GREAT. But in the name of IDIC, allow for us who find them distracting.
b. Let's say for the sake of argument the CGI DID look like actual physical objects. Even so -- and this is hard for some people to believe -- something "looking good" is not always the best criterion for "good." Sometimes "authentic" or "true to its time" IS a perfectly valid criterion for "good."
Like old music played on original instruments. A piano from Beethoven's day sounds like crap to our ears, but it's what he composed for, and it's cool to hear something closer to the way it would've been experienced then. It doesn't sound "good" on a surface level, but a period instrument recording can be very "good" nonetheless.
We are in the age of dream makeover shows and Avatar, where looking good means "good." But looking good is not necessarily the same as "good."
All you likers of TOS-R -- great, enjoy 'em. But don't imply we're mindless b/c we happen not to like something you like.
Peace to all beings and being itself.
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