Hey, I never noticed that before....

[plynch]

It wasn't utopia. Earth races cooperated. Alien species cooperated. But lots of strife and human failings still. [Mudd's Women, depicting some real darker sides of human nature, was one of the first eps shot.]

That's why it was so good and why TNG seems preachy (at least at first) to some folks.

 

[Tenacity]

The movies beyond the first one weren't Roddenberry either

Gene's vision persists.

Was the world of TOS really a utopian future though?

During TOS, the future was optimistic because Humanity survived to have a future.

That was basically it.

The wack-a-doddle utopian crap was invented by Roddenberry during the time period between the end of TOS and the creation of TNG.

 

[Maurice]

The wack-a-doddle utopian crap was invented by Roddenberry...

Maurice Hurley, is that you?

 

[Tenacity]

... is that you?

Not according to my gynecologist.

 

[mb22]

Gene's vision persists.During TOS, the future was optimistic because Humanity survived to have a future.

That was basically it.

The wack-a-doddle utopian crap was invented by Roddenberry during the time period between the end of TOS and the creation of TNG.

Roddenberry was already starting on the wack-a-doddle stuff in the 70s, once he started his speaking tours and began being treated as a great visionary. Read parts of Letters to Star Trek and other printed sources from that time.

 

[Noname Given]

Roddenberry was already starting on the wack-a-doddle stuff in the 70s, once he started his speaking tours and began being treated as a great visionary. Read parts of Letters to Star Trek and other printed sources from that time.

yep - just look at his "Genesis II" and "Planet Earth" pilots from 1973 and 1974 respectively with the 'unisex' beliefs and th women suddenly all wearing pants and looking at sex a a pure biological function.

 

[Tenacity]

I like TOS version better than later (and current) Star Trek. We won't kill today, unless you threaten us. Our political philosophy is practical, not utopian.

 

[MAGolding]

Axanar was mentioned in the TV series and no details were ever given as to where or when it was! The fan films have jumped onto this by assuming that it was a Klingon conflict!
JB

There is no evidence whether the Klingons were involved with Axanar.

Axanar is only mentioned a few times.

In "Court Martial":

COMPUTER: James T. Kirk, serial number SC937-0176CEC. Service rank, Captain. Position, Starship command. Current assignment, USS Enterprise. Commendations, Palm Leaf Of Axanar Peace Mission, Grankite Order of Tactics, Class of Excellence, Prantares Ribbon of Commendation, Classes first and second

The most obvious interpretation of "Axanar Peace Mission" is that it was a mission to Axanar (or possibly someother place) to make peace with a realm called Axanar. Assuming that the other party in the conflict was not called Axanar seems like a dubious assumption.

In "Whom Gods Destroy":

KIRK: I agree there was a time when war was necessary, and you were our greatest warrior. I studied your victory at Axanar when I was a cadet. In fact it's still required reading at the Academy.
GARTH: As well it should be.
KIRK: Very well. But my first visit to Axanar was as a new fledged cadet on a peace mission.

So Garth's great victory at Axanar happened during or before Kirk's time at the Academy and in time for Kirk to study it. But the final peace may have happened years after the victory, since Cadet Kirk visited Axanar on a peace mission.

Garth's apparent age (though that might be deceptive) and his comparatively low rank of fleet captain, makes it hard to imagine that he was senior enough to command at a great victory very long before Kirk entered Starfleet Academy. And it seems likely that Axanar was the capital planet of a reasonably impressive space realm, perhaps equal to the Klingons or the Romulans.

First contact is made with the Axanars in Enterprise "Fight or Flight" but little is learned about them.

 

[johnnybear]

Let us hope that DSC doesn't jump in on this by making it another battle in their ludicrous Klingon war!

JB

 

[Mytran]

The creators of Discovery would not give Alec Peters the publicity by involving Axanar in the new series...and quite honestly, there's no need to - there's more than enough history in the Star Trek universe for them to mine for ideas.

 

[johnnybear]

More than enough ideas? Then why are they mining their own?
JB

 

[Mytran]

More than enough history, @johnnybear . The ideas are what is subsequently inspired by it!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

yep - just look at his "Genesis II" and "Planet Earth" pilots from 1973 and 1974 respectively with the 'unisex' beliefs and th women suddenly all wearing pants and looking at sex a a pure biological function.

For me, Roddenberry's spell was broken when the TMP novelization started out with some needless and inappropriate guff about Kirk's mother having a love instructor. Oh, how daring and yet how matter-of-fact. It was clearly derivative of Robert Heinlein, and clashed badly with TOS. It wasn't a Star Trek vibe at all. If anything, it was gross and a little embarrassing. This was 1979. So basically, the cult of Infallible Roddenberry was a childhood thing for me that died with the Seventies.

What happened was, GR got a very big head during that decade of effusive praise. He thought fans would accept his whims and sexual reveries, or anything else he wanted to say, as coming from the voice of God. He didn't realize it was Star Trek that people loved, and not just any weird thing he might dream up and call Star Trek.

 

[Commishsleer]

For me, Roddenberry's spell was broken when the TMP novelization started out with some needless and inappropriate guff about Kirk's mother having a love instructor. Oh, how daring and yet how matter-of-fact. It was clearly derivative of Robert Heinlein, and clashed badly with TOS. It wasn't a Star Trek vibe at all. If anything, it was gross and a little embarrassing. This was 1979. So basically, the cult of Infallible Roddenberry was a childhood thing for me that died with the Seventies.

What happened was, GR got a very big head during that decade of effusive praise. He thought fans would accept his whims and sexual reveries, or anything else he wanted to say, as coming from the voice of God. He didn't realize it was Star Trek that people loved, and not just any weird thing he might dream up and call Star Trek.

I totally agree. Ugghh. I don't even know if that was cool in the 70s.

I was watching the Tholian Web today and when they did a closeup of the guy's sleeve as he was beaming up KIrk. He had a Lt Cmdr stripe yet in the full shot he was a Lt.

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[johnnybear]

I tried to read TMP years and years back but couldn't get through the first two chapters! Maybe it's time I gave it another go!
JB

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I was watching the Tholian Web today and when they did a closeup of the guy's sleeve as he was beaming up KIrk. He had a Lt Cmdr stripe yet in the full shot he was a Lt.

The close-up was stock footage of Jimmy Doohan, shot on the set of "The Enemy Within" on June 15, 1966. The clapboard is even marked "STOCK FX." They used that bit of film quite a few times.

 

[johnnybear]

Jay Jones appeared as an engineering ensign in the episode too as I recall! He was also one of the security guards in And The Children Shall Lead in season three!
JB

 

[FormerLurker]

The close-up was stock footage of Jimmy Doohan, shot on the set of "The Enemy Within" on June 15, 1966. The clapboard is even marked "STOCK FX." They used that bit of film quite a few times.

It's more likely stock footage of James Doohan's hand double. Remember, they were attempting to avoid revealing "Scotty of the Nine Fingers" at that point. Trouble With Tribbles is one of the few times they couldn't cover it up, but they would do whatever they needed to in any other situation.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It's more likely stock footage of James Doohan's hand double. Remember, they were attempting to avoid revealing "Scotty of the Nine Fingers" at that point. Trouble With Tribbles is one of the few times they couldn't cover it up, but they would do whatever they needed to in any other situation.

I can see why you might suppose that, but it really was Jimmy's hands in the stock footage close-up. You can count the fingers on his right hand :
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd050.jpg


Also, I'm looking at the clapboard frame that shows it's him. So yeah.

 

[FormerLurker]

Interesting.

But the way he's holding said hand makes the attempt to hide the missing digit kind of obvious, to those of us who know what we're looking for. At least he isn't clumsily holding a communicator.

And also interesting that they had him do the insert himself, instead of having someone else do it anyway. He really was dayplayer in the beginning.