Hey, I never noticed that before....

[johnnybear]

That's how I see it, GND! Skirmishes and the odd space battle just to define their own regions of space! A bit like the you don't interfere with our side of the world and we won't interfere with yours agreement that existed between the USA and USSR!
JB

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Note, I had forgotten there is a reference to what was apparently a major battle in the past with the Klingons in The Original Series.
In "The Trouble With Tribbles" during the briefing early at the beginning of the episode Spock says "The Battle of Donatu V was fought near here 23 years ago. Results inconclusive".

Further, "Donatu V" was later a base used by the Federation and Klingons that they were trying to resupply during the Dominion War in a Deep Space Nine episode.

Yup. It's referred to as a previous clash in DSC as well.

If you think authorial intent is instructive...

I love to be aware of authorial intent, it is instructive, but within the fiction it's only binding to the extent to which it's actually made clear in the text itself, and beyond that only applies until another author comes along with a different intent. Intent always gets modified, even just within a single production team as a series moves along. Nothing wrong with that if it doesn't actually contradict what made it to the screen. (And sometimes, not even if it does! But here it doesn't.)

-MMoM

 

[johnnybear]

Maybe the ENT temporal cold war upset the time lines of Kirk's future more than we know! Creating a conflict that never occurred in the original scenario? Makes more sense than a war with an unknown race of Klingons to me!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

No one ever says that, to my recollection, and I'm nearly finished with a re-watch of it all. Done with all the Klingon episodes. What did I miss? There was a line in an early script draft of "Day Of The Dove" to that effect but it was cut before it was ever filmed.

Kang does state in the episode that there has been peace between The Federation and The Klingon Empire for three years, a treaty they have honoured to the letter! But that refers to the outbreak of hostilities in Errand of Mercy rather than a galactic war!
JB

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Kang does state in the episode that there has been peace between The Federation and The Klingon Empire for three years, a treaty they have honoured to the letter! But that refers to the outbreak of hostilities in Errand of Mercy rather than a galactic war!
JB

Yes, and...? This in no way precludes there having been exactly such a war a decade before that.

The line to which I was referring, which was in the first draft of the script dated 9 August 1968, but was subsequently cut and probably never filmed at all, was as follows:

MCCOY: [sour] Fifty years -- eyeball to eyeball with the Klingon Empire. They've spied -- raided our outposts -- pirated merchant lanes. A thousand provocations, and the Federation has always managed to avoid war. Now, this crazy business could pull the trigger!

(Brought to you courtesy of our dearly departed @GSchnitzer.)

And even if that line had been in the episode—which again, it was not—the explicit context of the story was that the pinwheel entity had Our Heroes™ remembering false pasts. Remember Chekov's non-existent brother, Piotr? (Of course, it wouldn't make much sense for it to impart false memories of peace, since it was deliberately feeding off of conflict! So I mean that more as a joke. But still!)

-MMoM

 

[johnnybear]

I still think that ENTs Temporal cold war altered the correct flow of events, giving rise to the alternate reality of DSC!
JB

 

[Nerys Myk]

I still think that ENTs Temporal cold war altered the correct flow of events, giving rise to the alternate reality of DSC!
JB

Nah. In A Mirror Darkly shows TOS is the future of Enterprise, complete with jelly buttons and bright primary colors.

 

[johnnybear]

Mebee and mebee not..
JB

 

[Nerys Myk]

More than "Mebee"

 

[F. King Daniel]

Technically, just because there was a guy named Jonathan Archer doesn't mean it was the same Jonathan Archer - just look at Mirror-Kirk, Anti-Lazarus and Kelvin Kirk.

Infinite timelines and all. And heaven help the timeline that made him president of the Federation

 

[johnnybear]

This newer stuff just ain't Roddenberry to me!
JB

 

[Forbin]

The earlier Klingon episodes suggest an intergalactic Cold War with minor skirmishes. I doubt that there was imminent total warfare until the Organia incident.

You mean "interstellar," since it all occurred within one galaxy, and between governments of star systems.
"Intergalactic" means between galaxies.
... pet peeve.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You mean "interstellar," since it all occurred within one galaxy, and between governments of star systems.
"Intergalactic" means between galaxies.
... pet peeve.

Or intragalactic.

 

[GNDN18]

You mean "interstellar," since it all occurred within one galaxy, and between governments of star systems.
"Intergalactic" means between galaxies.
... pet peeve.

Duly noted. This topic didn’t embrace the Kelvans.

I just prefer the sound of “intergalactic”. Sounds more science-y to my ear. How about “intragalactic?”* No?

Now, if this were coming from the Gold Key universe, I would have been spot on.

*I see I have support from CC after the bell.

 

[Spock's Barber]

The Changeling.....after Nomad zaps 2 redshirts, there is a shot of Bill Blackburn wearing a gold tunic climbing up a ladder from a lower deck. A few seconds later Bill and Eddie Paskey are walking towards Kirk and Spock. This time Bill has a blue tunic on.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

You mean "interstellar," since it all occurred within one galaxy, and between governments of star systems.
"Intergalactic" means between galaxies.
... pet peeve.

Intergalactic, Planetary, Planetary, Intergalactic...

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[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

This newer stuff just ain't Roddenberry to me!
JB

Of course it's not. Not Gene Roddenberry, anyway. Gene Roddenberry has been dead since 1991. The movies beyond the first one weren't Roddenberry either. Neither were the later seasons of TNG, nor any of DS9, VGR, or ENT.

DSC is actually the first Trek series in more than 25 years to have a Roddenberry (his son Rod) creatively involved!

-MMoM

 

[johnnybear]

As the franchise has developed over the years it has become less and less like the utopian vision of the future that Gene Rodenberry had envisaged! That's probably why my interest ended when Voyager did and that was different enough!
JB

 

[Forbin]

Duly noted. This topic didn’t embrace the Kelvans.

I just prefer the sound of “intergalactic”. Sounds more science-y to my ear. How about “intragalactic?”* No?

Now, if this were coming from the Gold Key universe, I would have been spot on.

*I see I have support from CC after the bell.

Oh, intragalctic works fine!

 

[Mytran]

As the franchise has developed over the years it has become less and less like the utopian vision of the future that Gene Rodenberry had envisaged! That's probably why my interest ended when Voyager did and that was different enough!
JB

Was the world of TOS really a utopian future though?
TBH, I would say that the whole "Gene's vision" thing probably peaked in season 1 of TNG and that was hardly full of Trek's finest moments