Hey, I never noticed that before....

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. johnnybear

    johnnybear Commodore Commodore

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    Thing is in Balance of Terror, Kirk and his crew refer to the previous war between the earth and The Romulan Star Empire of a century before! Nothing is stated about the Federation ever going to war with The Klingons and I doubt that Gene Roddenberry would have wanted that fact in his near utopian view of future adventures in outer space!
    JB
     
  2. Samuel

    Samuel Captain Captain

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    If you go by the material from the RPG by FASA, the Federation fought the Klingons in the Four Years War that occurred back in the Captain Robert April era when the Constitution class first came into service. The abortive fan film about Axanar was based on this.

    I know this isn't canon but still
     
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  3. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Commodore Commodore

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    Spock mentions that in "Balance Of Terror" specifically because the Romulans hadn't been encountered since then.

    The galaxy was full of conflict in TOS. Humanity had made advances, sure, and Earth itself was supposed to be somewhat utopic, having found some unity and gotten past the point of being constantly on the verge of blowing itself to bits. The Federation never sought war, and didn't want it. But as can be seen from "Errand Of Mercy" itself, they were perfectly wiling to fight it when it came. And again, there was no overt suggestion that it was the first time.

    -MMoM:D
     
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  4. johnnybear

    johnnybear Commodore Commodore

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    Axanar was mentioned in the TV series and no details were ever given as to where or when it was! The fan films have jumped onto this by assuming that it was a Klingon conflict!
    JB
     
  5. Samuel

    Samuel Captain Captain

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    Note, I had forgotten there is a reference to what was apparently a major battle in the past with the Klingons in The Original Series.
    In "The Trouble With Tribbles" during the briefing early at the beginning of the episode Spock says "The Battle of Donatu V was fought near here 23 years ago. Results inconclusive".

    Further, "Donatu V" was later a base used by the Federation and Klingons that they were trying to resupply during the Dominion War in a Deep Space Nine episode.
     
  6. GNDN18

    GNDN18 Flagship of the Federation Premium Member

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    If you think authorial intent is instructive, it’s clear that Coon—speaking for the production staff—saw a clear parallel with the US/Soviet Union Cold War:

    The earlier Klingon episodes suggest an intergalactic Cold War with minor skirmishes. I doubt that there was imminent total warfare until the Organia incident.

    (Thanks to the always useful and well-spoken @Harvey)
     
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  7. johnnybear

    johnnybear Commodore Commodore

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    That's how I see it, GND! Skirmishes and the odd space battle just to define their own regions of space! A bit like the you don't interfere with our side of the world and we won't interfere with yours agreement that existed between the USA and USSR!
    JB
     
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  8. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Commodore Commodore

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    Yup. It's referred to as a previous clash in DSC as well.

    I love to be aware of authorial intent, it is instructive, but within the fiction it's only binding to the extent to which it's actually made clear in the text itself, and beyond that only applies until another author comes along with a different intent. Intent always gets modified, even just within a single production team as a series moves along. Nothing wrong with that if it doesn't actually contradict what made it to the screen. (And sometimes, not even if it does! But here it doesn't.)

    -MMoM:D
     
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  9. johnnybear

    johnnybear Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe the ENT temporal cold war upset the time lines of Kirk's future more than we know! Creating a conflict that never occurred in the original scenario? Makes more sense than a war with an unknown race of Klingons to me!
    JB
     
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  10. johnnybear

    johnnybear Commodore Commodore

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    Kang does state in the episode that there has been peace between The Federation and The Klingon Empire for three years, a treaty they have honoured to the letter! But that refers to the outbreak of hostilities in Errand of Mercy rather than a galactic war!
    JB
     
  11. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, and...? This in no way precludes there having been exactly such a war a decade before that.

    The line to which I was referring, which was in the first draft of the script dated 9 August 1968, but was subsequently cut and probably never filmed at all, was as follows:

    MCCOY:
    [sour] Fifty years -- eyeball to eyeball with the Klingon Empire. They've spied -- raided our outposts -- pirated merchant lanes. A thousand provocations, and the Federation has always managed to avoid war. Now, this crazy business could pull the trigger!

    (Brought to you courtesy of our dearly departed @GSchnitzer.)

    And even if that line had been in the episode—which again, it was not—the explicit context of the story was that the pinwheel entity had Our Heroes™ remembering false pasts. Remember Chekov's non-existent brother, Piotr? (Of course, it wouldn't make much sense for it to impart false memories of peace, since it was deliberately feeding off of conflict! So I mean that more as a joke. But still!)

    -MMoM:D
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
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  12. johnnybear

    johnnybear Commodore Commodore

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    I still think that ENTs Temporal cold war altered the correct flow of events, giving rise to the alternate reality of DSC!
    JB
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

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    Nah. In A Mirror Darkly shows TOS is the future of Enterprise, complete with jelly buttons and bright primary colors.
     
  14. johnnybear

    johnnybear Commodore Commodore

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    Mebee and mebee not..
    JB
     
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

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    More than "Mebee"
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Technically, just because there was a guy named Jonathan Archer doesn't mean it was the same Jonathan Archer - just look at Mirror-Kirk, Anti-Lazarus and Kelvin Kirk.

    Infinite timelines and all. And heaven help the timeline that made him president of the Federation:rommie:
     
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  17. johnnybear

    johnnybear Commodore Commodore

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    This newer stuff just ain't Roddenberry to me!
    JB
     
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    You mean "interstellar," since it all occurred within one galaxy, and between governments of star systems.
    "Intergalactic" means between galaxies.
    ... pet peeve.
     
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  19. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Or intragalactic.
     
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  20. GNDN18

    GNDN18 Flagship of the Federation Premium Member

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    Duly noted. This topic didn’t embrace the Kelvans.

    I just prefer the sound of “intergalactic”. Sounds more science-y to my ear. How about “intragalactic?”* No?

    Now, if this were coming from the Gold Key universe, I would have been spot on.

    *I see I have support from CC after the bell
    . :)
     
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