• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

News Female Same-Sex Couple For Discovery?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have no idea what that paragraph means. Why do you need to make your mind up about documented biological facts of the human condition?
He seems to think he’s an expert on everything and the final authority on all subjects. That’s why he thinks he knows more about my life than me and then accuses me of being hostile to him. I don’t get it either.

I didn't say you needed authority to have a perspective. But if you're gonna come tell someone that their perspective is wrong, particularly someone whose perspective is that they live this topic, you'd better have more to back that up than "Well I didn't know about that yet."
Being a self-proclaimed expert must be hard, especially when your knowledge is extremely lacking and full of misinformation.
 
Also, serious question: since when does one need "authority" to have a perspective on this topic?
When someone chooses to arrogantly lecture (at great length) someone who actually has lived that perspective, and tell them that they are wrong about their own idenity and others like them, even though the person being disputed is very well-read AND personally experienced in the matter, then one had better damn well be some kind of authority or expert on the subject themselves, and not just someone who is speculating about a subject they're "not sure" about. Especially when the subject is something as personal and impactful as one's own identity.
So I have a right to my own perspective, just as long as it's exactly the same as everyone else's?:shifty:
You can believe whatever wrongheaded thing you want, but if you're going to come here and repeatedly tell people they're wrong about the experience they've lived, it might lead you down a path to where you get in trouble.
I thought we weren't allowed to use "dude" anymore?:vulcan:
You know damn well that's not the case. You deliberately misgendered Awesome Possum after she informed you multiple times that she is a woman, which is a common tactic of those who want to insult or deny the existence of transgender people (just like putting transgender in scare quotes to pretend like it's not a real thing), so don't play innocent and act like it was a prohibition on using the word "dude".

Now, as a general commentary, can we please stop with the insulting and tangential discussion about whether transgender people will exist in the future? Why is it that anytime someone says they would like to see people like themselves represented in Star Trek some numpty has to come along to ignorantly inform everyone that technology will have eliminated it or it won't be considered important in the future? We're talking about a show that exists now starring actors that exist now and whose representation of different groups is important and supposed to be inspirational to those who exist now. Stop interjecting your half-assed theories about future technology and medical care and sociology/biology into discussions where people simply say they'd like to see people like me represented onscreen. How does that hurt you, especially if you've been a member of a group that has been traditionally over-represented and treated as the norm in TV and film?
 
The initial hypothesis -- that humans are no different from other animals -- on Earth in that we have two distinct sexes -- could well be wrong.
Hate to break it to you but not all animals on Earth have two distinct sexes. That is, again, an hypothesis that was made by a bunch of guys with incomplete information, who then spent a lot of energy making sure that information STAYED incomplete just so they could be "correct". Like, one example that every gradeschooler knows is that of seahorses: nominally "male" and "female" but the facts of their sexual anatomy stretch such definitions to absurdity. Or maybe you just meant mammals? Check out what hyenas have going on then tell me they're "distinctly" male and female.

Our science is ridiculously culturally biased. In a world where the Buginese people of Indonesia colonized everything, we'd be having this conversation about the five distinct sets of biological markers that make up sex, since our earliest research would be done through the assumption that there are five naturally occurring genders so there MUST be five sexes to justify that!
 
When someone chooses to arrogantly lecture (at great length) someone who actually has lived that perspective, and tell them that they are wrong about their own idenity and others like them, even though the person being disputed is very well-read AND personally experienced in the matter, then one had better damn well be some kind of authority or expert on the subject themselves, and not just someone who is speculating about a subject they're "not sure" about. Especially when the subject is something as personal and impactful as one's own identity.
Maybe I'm confused, but I don't remember Awesome Possum bringing up intersex conditions. Did I miss a page when I was lurking?

You know damn well that's not the case. You deliberately misgendered Awesome Possum after she informed you multiple times that she is a woman
Sorry that you (or she) feel that way, but I tend to use "dude" as a general term of affection. No offense intended.

Stop interjecting your half-assed theories about future technology and medical care and sociology/biology into discussions where people simply say they'd like to see people like me represented onscreen. How does that hurt you, especially if you've been a member of a group that has been traditionally over-represented and treated as the norm in TV and film?
Because I like to imagine and I like to speculate. I like to think about what life will be like for a transgender person in the Federation. How will things be better, how will things be worse? I like to think about what the transition might actually look like at that level of technology, how much easier, safer, and less painful it might be. I like to think about how culture will change and adapt under those conditions, and maybe how it might look back on the mistakes of the past (meaning us).

And because this is a message board for a science fiction television show. If we aren't allowed to talk about what the future might look like, why the hell are we watching Star Trek?
 
I like to think about what life will be like for a transgender person in the Federation. How will things be better, how will things be worse? I like to think about what the transition might actually look like at that level of technology, how much easier, safer, and less painful it might be. I like to think about how culture will change and adapt under those conditions, and maybe how it might look back on the mistakes of the past (meaning us).

It'll be better in that people won't care about whether or not someone is transgender.

I like to think about what the transition might actually look like at that level of technology, how much easier, safer, and less painful it might be.

300 years of technological advancement in and of itself would make the physical transition easier.
 
Hate to break it to you but not all animals on Earth have two distinct sexes. That is, again, an hypothesis that was made by a bunch of guys with incomplete information, who then spent a lot of energy making sure that information STAYED incomplete just so they could be "correct". Like, one example that every gradeschooler knows is that of seahorses: nominally "male" and "female" but the facts of their sexual anatomy stretch such definitions to absurdity. Or maybe you just meant mammals? Check out what hyenas have going on then tell me they're "distinctly" male and female.
This is probably the universe's way of telling me I've been away from evolutionary biology far too long, especially since:

Our science is ridiculously culturally biased. In a world where the Buginese people of Indonesia colonized everything, we'd be having this conversation about the five distinct sets of biological markers that make up sex, since our earliest research would be done through the assumption that there are five naturally occurring genders so there MUST be five sexes to justify that!
... is also a really good point.

Clearly it's time to update my reading list for the week.
:beer:
 
This discussion seems to be going on for longer than necessary.

Just a friendly observation.
It has, if people would just accept science, trust that trans people know more about being trans than cis people and that representation was a good thing and we needed more, it could. But a bunch of guys (probably straight, white cis males) think they know better than anyone else and keep butting in with uninformed opinions and keep trying to dismiss the concerns of and erase everyone they just don’t like.
 
And because this is a message board for a science fiction television show. If we aren't allowed to talk about what the future might look like, why the hell are we watching Star Trek?
Maybe we can speculate about how in the future they will be able to medically screen out and eliminate incredibly frustrating stubbornness and obtuseness.
 
Maybe we can speculate about how in the future they will be able to medically screen out and eliminate incredibly frustrating stubbornness and obtuseness.
Well, the ignore function is already a thing today. We live the future!
 
Stop. It won't be worse in any way, only better.
On the whole, definitely. But progress comes at a price. Even desegregation in the 1960s came with more than a few unintended side effects for the black community. And the growing popularity of cochlear implants has lead to a decline in fluency in American Sign Language and what some consider an over-reliance on the implant, which is problematic for a lot of reasons.

Half the fun of these things is imagining what might happen.

And what constitutes better, well, perhaps you should listen actual trans people regarding that?
Despite my best efforts, my hearing is probably irreparably compromised by my white cis-male heterosexuality so all of those conversations I've had must have been wasted on me.

Another serious question: which two of the above things do not actually apply to me?
 
It'll be better in that people won't care about whether or not someone is transgender.
I would hope so, things do appear to be slowly getting better now. Mainly due to greater visibility of trans people, something that would be helped by more representation.

300 years of technological advancement in and of itself would make the physical transition easier.
Most likely. The issue that some can’t seem to get or they are intentionally trying to gloss over is to who they should hire for the part. I and probably the vast majority of trans people prefer to only have trans actors play trans characters. For some reason, I’m assuming either bigotry or bigotry mixed with a complete unawareness of how trans people look, some people keep insisting that they only hire cis people. I guess trans people are just too ugly for them, they want trans people erased so they don’t have to see them or they think that trans women look like men, trans men look like women and they probably think non-binary look like aliens. The truth is that trans women look like women, we’re generally taller on average. Trans men are generally shorter on average. Neither are out of range with their cis counterparts, so we tend to blend in so well that most cis people wouldn’t even assume we were trans unless we told you. Most people probably pass by trans people daily without even thinking about it.

Having more trans people on tv and film would help the old myths about us finally die. Which is why I want it to happen. Then we no longer have to debate whether I know what I’m talking about when I talk about my self. Because I don’t like doing it every single day. I’d rather talk about other things.
 
Okay you are well past the point of debating in bad faith with this given the insults, character attacks, and rampant strawmanning.

Amazing how so many seem to disagree with you. This isn't really a debate, it's her life and those of thousands of other people who don't have her courage.

That courage is one of many reasons she's one of the most popular and well loved posters ever to have inhabited these boards whereas no one much knows or cares who you are or what you think.

Do feel free to take your bad faith and insert it into an orifice of your choosing, not one person would notice the fucking difference.
 
As we fleetingly touched on Culber’s death, it feels even more pointless that there were no real consequences, with his murderer set free without so much as a trial, hearing or even investigation.
The lack of responsibility Voq was held to for that was really surprising to me.
His death was just completely pointless which makes it all the more galling.
I waited my whole life to see a gay couple on Trek (Sulu’s husband was handled so poorly, without a single line of dialogue and around ten seconds of screen time that was as vague as possible about their relationship) - so to have Culber killed AND his murderer set free was disappointing.
 
As we fleetingly touched on Culber’s death, it feels even more pointless that there were no real consequences, with his murderer set free without so much as a trial, hearing or even investigation.
The lack of responsibility Voq was held to for that was really surprising to me.
His death was just completely pointless which makes it all the more galling.
I waited my whole life to see a gay couple on Trek (Sulu’s husband was handled so poorly, without a single line of dialogue and around ten seconds of screen time that was as vague as possible about their relationship) - so to have Culber killed AND his murderer set free was disappointing.
Yes you said this several times already.
 
Okay you are well past the point of debating in bad faith with this given the insults, character attacks, and rampant strawmanning.
Amazing how so many seem to disagree with you. This isn't really a debate, it's her life and those of thousands of other people who don't have her courage.

That courage is one of many reasons she's one of the most popular and well loved posters ever to have inhabited these boards whereas no one much knows or cares who you are or what you think.

Do feel free to take your bad faith and insert it into an orifice of your choosing, not one person would notice the fucking difference.
Good grief. This topic is closed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top